Hi,

Ive been playing HUSNGs for 3.5 years now but only now after I refused to join the 30s HU turbo cartel(since the large majority of them are weak players) and started hunting almost all the regs there, Ive started getting my account suspended for "deliberate stalling". My playstyle has always been slower than your standard regs, since I like thinking through hands more, instead of the robotic style that many have and that is the reason why my results are at the top of the games Im playing. As I answered to Pokerstars aswell, they might aswell go ahead and ban thousands of other multitablers also, who time down on most of their decisions. The ban happened for the 2nd time today, on the 5th of june. Last one was on 9th of april. For the 1st time it was just for about 1-2 days and today I got this letter with same reasoning but the ban is now for 2 weeks.
So I guess the moral of the story is: you have to join a cartel or otherwise you will be massreported by them and there will always be some rule, that can be bent against you. There is no real evidence for "deliberate stalling", the only thing they see is "timing down on decisions", which as I mentioned before and Im sure everybody knows, is what masstablers do in all different formats of poker.

Hello Karl-Joonatan,

On the 10.04. you acknowledged our Terms of Service to not delay games.

We have found you deliberately stalling/delaying a tournament again in tournament #1932865005 - taking very long for almost every decision, no matter how obvious the decision.

In our last email we informed you that future violations may result in further action against your account.

We have therefore decided to suspend your account until the 18.06.2017.

You may contact us after this date to have your account reinstated.

Thank you for your understanding.

Regards,

Tino
Stars Support


Here are my results for 30s 2man turbos this year, keep in mind Im playing outside of the cartel and the majority of the games are vs the cartel regs and my EV ROI is still bigger than the best of them have while they are playing vs fish the large majority of the time.

https://ibb.co/n1ZBqv

Well, how often do you time out?

I hate stallers. I don't think bans are in order for (intentional) stalling, if I was Stars I would severely limits the # of tables these people can play. You have been streaming on twitch for a while, right? (Hope I'm not misremembering) I remember thinking that you take a ****load of time for really trivial decisions and switched channels soon after.


But I also hate the cartels. If they are abusing reports to get rid of competition then that's bad.

Do you have the hand history of tournament #1932865005? How often does it say "has 8 more seconds" and "has requested time"/"activated timebank" or whatever it is? Post it if you can.

If you have been banned before and notified that you need to speed up your actions (especially the trivial ones) - well, you either have to limit your # tables or pick up the pace.

This will sound rude but good.
They have warned already and have reviewed tournament and even say for obvious decision you are taking time. I understand some decisions have to think, but they will have taken average time and you must be abusing this.
I hope all very slow players get same thing.

I forgot to mention, since the start of april, after the warning, I went from 6 tables to playing 4 tables. And Im sure the whole cartel has been reporting me during these 2 months aswell. It is really easy to find at least 1 tournament in a span of 2 months, where possibly more games than usual will pop up and the decision making gets too slow- so boom, you are banned for that? I see it all the time on poker streams where streamers complain that there is someone playing so slow. Well surprise surprise, people have different thinking speeds and how can it be an offense? Pokerstars should just limit the decision making time in the system, not punish people for using the time they are given for decision making by the system. Might aswell cut the 8 second time to 5-6 seconds then if you just get banned for multitabling and using what is given to you.

I disagree. This system is not designed specifically for your needs. Most people use 1 second for all their decisions and then ~15-30s for the tough ones. That is totally fine and using what is given to you.

If you constantly use 30s for every decision, then that is abusing what is given to you. There are specific rules in the agreement you signed for this.

Additionally, yes people think at different speeds, but slower thinkers should then not play 4-6 tables where quick thinkers can. The rules have been laid out to you very clearly. In two weeks, you will be given another chance to adhere to them.

I already said in last post, that Ive cut down to 4 tables since the 1st ban but it is pretty obvious that anyone can get into this situation, where more tables than usual, pop up and a reg will complain. In my case it took 2 months for that situation to reoccurr. So should everyone just be banned for 14 days when this eventually happens? Unbanned in 2 weeks and then in another 2 months for example I start playing a session and become sick in the middle of the session/just feeling ill and cant concentrate well on the games, is it just "gg, you are banned for 30 days now"?

I am 6-tabling Spin&Gos. I never time out, rarely use my time bank, and have literally never received any complaints. Just consider that you are in the minority here and people are legitimately pissed off.

I also do not believe you when you say it has since happened only once. It's problably habitual and they just used that example.

Play fewer tables OR play quicker OR switch sites to where they don't care OR run the risk of being suspended. Options are not that hard to consider.

+1 to 8gameisfun.
Does not matter if you cut from 6 to 4 and excuse is more pop up than normal. You should make sure is not possible. If that means play 2 that is case.
Using excuse of others doing it is not good excuse. They should also be limit. Better for games.

"in tournament #1932865005 - taking very long for almost every decision, no matter how obvious the decision.

Play 2 tables like normal people.

It happened literally yesterday, that one of the regs in the cartel told me during the game "I just reported you for stalling" and boom today Im banned. So yes, I did start playing 4 tables mainly instead of 6 and there definitely is a big difference in my average gamespeed since the first ban.

No s..t the cartel people are pissed off lols, did you look at the graph that I have vs mostly them? Many of these guys constantly curse at me in chat when playing and seem very desperate.

There is no rule though, that says you cant multitable if that means you have to use more than "x" amount of your timer. The rule is about deliberate stalling, which is a completely different thing. That would mean Im just sitting there with no actions on other tables and trying to piss off my opponent. Im recording my sessions with webcam and I have proof that there is no deliberate stalling, as the offenses have claimed.

Start observing the cartel members' games and reporting them for stalling too if you think they don't act much faster than you.

Slow acting for any reason frustrates recs a lot, and cutting your and each other reg's table counts will result in an increase in recs' net deposits and improve the rec-to-reg ratio in terms of total SNG entries.

I know for a fact that there is a rule that states that if you act against "the spirit of the game", they can take actions accordingly.

But let's look at this from another angle: What exactly are you trying to achieve with this post? Most people seem to agree that overly stalling warrants a suspension. Can you see where they are coming from?

What are you going to do/change in the future is the question you should be asking yourself.

Ive played online on Pokerstars for about 7 years and now suddenly, when I go against a cartel for the 1st time and crush them,I get banned 2 times. I clearly did make changes after the first warning, so getting banned 2 months later and now for 14 days seems excessive to say the least. On this example, they should go ahead and ban all the poker streamers and a ton of regs aswell, who balance their timebank decisions on "trivial decisions" to hide timing tells, cause they do it intentionally. And of course got to ban Nanonoko and other masstablers aswell for daring to time down on decisions. There are literally thousands of people who play on Pokerstars with more tables and time down the same way I do but since Im up vs a cartel, who can just massreport someone, I am the one getting punished.

Yeah I'm out, this is such a stupid argument to be had.

Listen, if they reported you and you weren't do it, nothing would come of it.

Yes, nothing to argue here. Obviously everybody would like their opponents to be as fast as possible, to get games over with quicker. My problem with this, was the fact, that its being labelled as "deliberate stalling", when in reality it is just a slower decision making process due to playing more tables than your average player/thinking deeper. At least now I understand that even if its not defined in the rules, then multitabling is now frowned upon, unless you stop thinking more ingame.

Has your slower decision making ever come up in chat with opponents?

It would be good to hear from some of your opponents.

Mod should clearly change the name of the thread (for the record I don't have anything to do with turbos). Something along the line of "I play too many tables and I got banned, help me play faster" is much closer to reality.

What's even up for discussion if stars themselves say you take too much time for trivial decisions? They don't care who you play. The fact that some people get away with it, because no one reported them, doesn't make it ok and is pretty lol excuse.

People 6 table spins for example with great results and are faster than a lot of 2-tablers in terms of acting. If you are not fast enough, cut the tables, that's it.

Temporarily changed the title to reflect the information available.

"Timing down on trivial decisions". It doesnt matter what the decision is- when you are playing more tables, there is a certain time that passes till you get back to the same table to take action again. There is no such thing as "deliberate stalling", which is forced upon me. Might aswell call most 16-24 tablers in tournaments/cash games deliberate stallers aswell and just ban them also cause they sure as hell time dont time down less than I do in my HU games. Yet I havent heard of that happening or ever heard of someone getting banned for that.

Post the unedited tournament, including chat/time bank statuses. Don't remove any line at all.

Just saying this so that you don't consider removing any lines of the chat: if your opponent posts a chat that shows you removing chat/time bank cues, you'll lose posting privileges. Not saying you would do that, but I want to ensure that the unedited tournament is posted here.

Yes, people have complained but that doesnt mean Im breaking any rules. There is no written rule that says where is the line between how much can you time down and still be okay when multitabling vs when timing down becomes a ban. I already made my adjustment to cut down from 6 to 4 tables and its been much better. Still I get one offense 2 months later and boom, its a 14 day ban now instead of the 1-2 days I got the first time. So Im supposed to play like a robot from now on and I cant allow myself to become tired or ill during a session, cause a reg will immedistely report me when Im timing down cause of that and byebye for at least a month the next time or permanently, even if that happens very rarely?

From being a HUSNG reg, I realize you need to take time on your decision's but the question is it preflop deep or just postflip decisions?

Assuming you have like 27o and it takes you 10-15seconds to act and open fold which only Pokerstars will be able to see I'd understand why they banned you, I don't know if we played much or ever? Maybe a few times but I'd never sit you in a Reg speed, is it just reg speed games that your decisions took awhile? From Turbos I can't remember you timing down..

I know I had seen you ask the 30 "regs" to sit turbos before and got angry and having to play a reg speed vs them that's the only reason I brought up the question.

From what I remember having to report regs for stalling every hand is that if a reg is playing 2+ tables and only stalling on 1 table then it's an issue and can be banned, however if he only has 1 table going and is stalling there isn't much they can do unless you are doing it consistantly. Mind you i'm not reporting for stalling 1 game or something, but if I"d sit them and they would time down every hand to frustrate me so I avoid playing them, I'd report them..


Curious who the reg is that reported you for stalling and if it was Reg speed game?

Edit: I just searched the tourny ID and it was a Turbo game vs a reg, would be curious to hear the side of this with the $30 regs..

I pretty much never decline rematches from cartel members, which is pretty obvious from the fact that I refused to join them. As you can see from my results, I am very comfortable playing the 30s regs, so why would I want them to decline rematches if I cant really open sit anyways.
Yes, I play slow but I play slow vs everyone, including fish and that is pretty easy to check for Pokerstars.

When the accusation is of "deliberste stalling", then shouldnt the evidence be from comparing the games I had running at the same time to the game in question. In case all the tables had timing down issues vs different opponents, it wasnt obviously intentional stalling on the 1 table. Something that is easy to check for Pokerstars.