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**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** **Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread**

04-15-2012 , 11:56 AM
some (new?) ideas:

+ make an "I'm ready" button like FTP had to skip the 15 sec pause at the start of the match
+ get rid of the pause after 2nd hand (why does that happen anyway?)
+ get rid of the pause after announcing new blind level, quite unnecessary for anyone who has played >10 matches lifetime
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04-15-2012 , 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasghettos
If we are going to push for rake discounts for multiple games played then we should probably offer ideas about what to do should a player disconnect, or something comes up and a player has to leave the computer, etc. If I agree to 21 matches and then my internet goes out during match #3, do I just get blinded out in the remaining games? If a player's commitment to 21 games is voided in the event of a disconnection then that allows for a very obvious exploit should someone not want to continue to the full number of games.

I'm not sure about what I think should happen.
This is why I prefer a system where you get reduced rake/bonus VIPs for additional rematches after the 10th or so. It encourages action but fish don't feel locked in, and we don't have the disconnect problem
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04-16-2012 , 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpazz
some (new?) ideas:

+ make an "I'm ready" button like FTP had to skip the 15 sec pause at the start of the match
+ get rid of the pause after 2nd hand (why does that happen anyway?)
+ get rid of the pause after announcing new blind level, quite unnecessary for anyone who has played >10 matches lifetime
+100 so fcng tilting >_<

btw, guys, what do u think about 3-4 lobby system for hypers but only 1 lobby per person?
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04-16-2012 , 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexrjl
This is why I prefer a system where you get reduced rake/bonus VIPs for additional rematches after the 10th or so. It encourages action but fish don't feel locked in, and we don't have the disconnect problem
I still really like alexrjl's idea the best. Covers everything without having any holes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexrjl
Reducing rake for multiple rematches (reduction after 5 rematches iirc) has been suggested and would be a great way of reducing rake for reg battles/hu4rollz while not being unfair (cause if fish want to keep rematching they get reduced rake too).

Another idea would be to reduce rake for the 2nd table if the "add another table" option gets implemented. This would again have the effect of encouraging long battles between regs while not being unfair to fish who want to multitable.

In both cases stars gets something out of the rake reduction as it encourages people to put more games in the short term (either by rematching more or playing more tables). This is a rake model stars clearly likes as it is exactly how the VIP system works in the long term
---

Also, IMO, people should get in the habit of showing support for the ideas they agree with instead of being passive. Many great ideas in this thread haven't been getting enough love. If hardly anyone '+1s' or shows support for an idea, you can only expect Stars to deem the demand not being high enough to warrant investing time/energy in software changes.
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04-16-2012 , 02:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpazz
some (new?) ideas:

+ make an "I'm ready" button like FTP had to skip the 15 sec pause at the start of the match
+ get rid of the pause after 2nd hand (why does that happen anyway?)
+ get rid of the pause after announcing new blind level, quite unnecessary for anyone who has played >10 matches lifetime
These would be real improvements and they are very easy to implement.
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04-16-2012 , 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpazz
some (new?) ideas:

+ make an "I'm ready" button like FTP had to skip the 15 sec pause at the start of the match
+ get rid of the pause after 2nd hand (why does that happen anyway?)
+ get rid of the pause after announcing new blind level, quite unnecessary for anyone who has played >10 matches lifetime
+1
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04-16-2012 , 06:26 AM
Why isn't there a HUSNG leaderbord yet?
It would enduce players to play more and the player pool on stars must be big enough to make it profitable for them.
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04-16-2012 , 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpazz
some (new?) ideas:

+ make an "I'm ready" button like FTP had to skip the 15 sec pause at the start of the match
+ get rid of the pause after 2nd hand (why does that happen anyway?)
+ get rid of the pause after announcing new blind level, quite unnecessary for anyone who has played >10 matches lifetime
+1

especially the pauses, the 15sec till start of the game doesnt bother me that much but those pauses... so irritating :/
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04-16-2012 , 10:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpazz
some (new?) ideas:

+ make an "I'm ready" button like FTP had to skip the 15 sec pause at the start of the match
+ get rid of the pause after 2nd hand (why does that happen anyway?)
+ get rid of the pause after announcing new blind level, quite unnecessary for anyone who has played >10 matches lifetime
f'n brilliant. I thought that pause after the 2nd hand just happened to me and my ****ty pc

+1
+1
+1
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04-16-2012 , 11:03 AM
Will Stars respond to this thread one day?
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04-16-2012 , 11:13 AM
this topic has 31 pages, was anything that has been mentioned here been ever introduced on stars?
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04-16-2012 , 12:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qetou
this topic has 31 pages, was anything that has been mentioned here been ever introduced on stars?
+1 My thoughts exactly
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04-16-2012 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by qetou
this topic has 5 pages, was anything that has been mentioned here been ever introduced on stars?
cmon srsly

Maybe once FT comes back and people start splitting their action 50/50 on the two sites then they'll do something when they realize how much rake they lose.
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04-17-2012 , 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMeansYes_
cmon srsly
Maybe once FT comes back and people start splitting their action 50/50 on the two sites then they'll do something when they realize how much rake they lose.
Yes this is what I think too.
If FTP has enough Action at hypers again, most ppl will switch because of flat RB AND a leaderboard! Additionally FTP will offer a big "Reload Bonus" and the traffic jumps away from Stars.

When FTP returns, the time of Stars dominance will be over and things have to change.
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04-17-2012 , 10:36 AM
yh ft return will be best for the poker economy
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
04-17-2012 , 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpazz
some (new?) ideas:

+ make an "I'm ready" button like FTP had to skip the 15 sec pause at the start of the match
+ get rid of the pause after 2nd hand (why does that happen anyway?)
+ get rid of the pause after announcing new blind level, quite unnecessary for anyone who has played >10 matches lifetime
+1 for all of these

also thanks u cnat spell.
**Official PokerStars Heads Up SNG Improvement Thread** Quote
04-18-2012 , 06:02 AM
This post is a status update on several issues raised in the thread.

Before getting into specifics I would like to cover how long different types of request can take to implement, just to ensure that players don’t have unrealistic expectations. Some requests, such as adding a new buy-in for an existing type of Sit and Go or a new speed (Hyper HU PLO for instance), are relatively easy to handle from a technical perspective, although they might involve a lot of discussion beforehand. For example, we discussed the additional 6-max NL Holdem hypers for months but once we decided to deploy them, it was a fairly quick process. Requests that are an easy decision but require a software change, such as Add Another Table functionality, are added to the development queue and compete for priority against other items that require development, such as Zoom. Finally there are requests that require both a significant amount of discussion and then development time, such as changes to Battle of the Planets.

Add Extra Table is a clear improvement with little or no downside and is in the development queue. Priorities for development can sometime change quite radically so I don’t want to give any estimated dates. I doubt it will be in the short term though.

We are going to reduce the time that the rematch option remains open to 15 seconds. This is also in the development queue. Even though this is a relatively small change, it still has to go through the full development and testing cycle along with anything else being released at the same time. Given it is a relatively minor change I hope it will be done within a small number of months.

A heads-up leaderboard is a long discussion plus development task and we are still in discussion at the moment. If we decide to do this, it won’t be available any time soon. One reason we haven’t had a heads-up leaderboard in the past is that with two-entrant tournaments, collusion between players to achieve a high score is much more tempting.

As I mentioned previously, a concern we have regarding some form of chop button is that it could be used for flipping to quickly gain VPPs. This is still in the discussion phase and if we decided to implement it, perhaps making it available after a certain time or at a certain blind level, it would require development time.

There are discussions in the thread on changing the number of open lobbies. There doesn’t seem to be any consensus on this in the thread and we are very happy with the situation at the moment. I don’t foresee any changes.

An “I’m ready” button is in the development queue.

Our focus for future promotions is to increase the number of recreational players, which will benefit regular players and maintain the health of the games. High volume is rewarded though the VIP program. Promotional ideas for recreational players are more likely to be implemented than promotions that reward high volume.

We’ve had a request for HU NLO8 games. This doesn’t require development time and doesn’t affect a large proportion of the player pool so it is a much quicker decision. These will probably be deployed in the next week or so.

Team play in the 4-player heads-up format has resulted in a negative experience for some players. Therefore, we don’t plan to expand our 4-player heads-up offering.
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04-18-2012 , 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwDanon
So stupid arguements lol. To add 1 btn or reduce rematch decision time stars need like half year =\
All this things are nothing special and were working on FTP fine. U didnt hire FTP`s programmers? Such a mistake... or wait! They didnt agree to work w your software and offered salary? *troll*
They just have other priorities, maybe you missed that argument. Its understandable imo and fair to let people know changes arent coming tomorrow just cuz someone posted such a great idea.

Once FTP reopens they will likely have many more players leaving because of rush poker than husng. They certainly will invest a lot in getting a decent rush-like game so that they keep players on the site.
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04-18-2012 , 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PS Walmsley
This post is a status update on several issues raised in the thread.
Thanks for an answer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PS Walmsley
We are going to reduce the time that the rematch option remains open to 15 seconds. This is also in the development queue. Even though this is a relatively small change, it still has to go through the full development and testing cycle along with anything else being released at the same time. Given it is a relatively minor change I hope it will be done within a small number of months.
What I don't understand is that it takes months. Isn't it just changing one value in the source code? Of course the head of development and the CEO have to sign it, but it takes months?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PS Walmsley
A heads-up leaderboard is a long discussion plus development task and we are still in discussion at the moment. If we decide to do this, it won’t be available any time soon. One reason we haven’t had a heads-up leaderboard in the past is that with two-entrant tournaments, collusion between players to achieve a high score is much more tempting.
Please take a look at Full Tilts leaderboard. You only get points for the leaderboard when you have a positive winrate vs a player and you only get these points once per player. So it doesn't matter if you are 100:15 against a player, you get the same amount as a player who is 1:0 vs this opponent. So you have to play different opponents to get points.
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04-18-2012 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PS Walmsley
We are going to reduce the time that the rematch option remains open to 15 seconds. This is also in the development queue. Even though this is a relatively small change, it still has to go through the full development and testing cycle along with anything else being released at the same time. Given it is a relatively minor change I hope it will be done within a small number of months.
I don't get why this has to go thru the bureaucracy circle, we're all happy with it and you guys are all happy with it and it's as easy as changing a number in the code. I'd run this for a few matches in the test client to see if it works ok, that's as far as I'd take it. How hard can it be to change a number from 30 to 15?

Quote:
A heads-up leaderboard is a long discussion plus development task and we are still in discussion at the moment. If we decide to do this, it won’t be available any time soon. One reason we haven’t had a heads-up leaderboard in the past is that with two-entrant tournaments, collusion between players to achieve a high score is much more tempting.
with full tilt's format it would be pretty much impossible, as it would involve chipdumping between a fairly large amount of players or over a fairly large amount of matches which I'm sure you can easily detect

Quote:
As I mentioned previously, a concern we have regarding some form of chop button is that it could be used for flipping to quickly gain VPPs. This is still in the discussion phase and if we decided to implement it, perhaps making it available after a certain time or at a certain blind level, it would require development time.
flipping for VPPs can be done without the chop button and really I don't see how it's a problem, you guys would be making money from it. And if it can't be used at the start of the match then wtf would it be used for? If I want to chop with someone, it's to preserve my hourly rate instead of playing a low ROI match for a duration of time, and if I can't use the button I most definitely won't wait to be able to use it.

Quote:
There are discussions in the thread on changing the number of open lobbies. There doesn’t seem to be any consensus on this in the thread and we are very happy with the situation at the moment. I don’t foresee any changes.
good news finally

Quote:
An “I’m ready” button is in the development queue.
ETA on this?

Quote:
We’ve had a request for HU NLO8 games. This doesn’t require development time and doesn’t affect a large proportion of the player pool so it is a much quicker decision. These will probably be deployed in the next week or so.
I am strongly against any new hyper formats but seeing as this is a done deal I'd rather we focus on ideas yet to be implemented

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siriusz
Once FTP reopens they will likely have many more players leaving because of rush poker than husng. They certainly will invest a lot in getting a decent rush-like game so that they keep players on the site.
Spoiler:
um ftp invented rush poker
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04-18-2012 , 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PS Walmsley
As I mentioned previously, a concern we have regarding some form of chop button is that it could be used for flipping to quickly gain VPPs. This is still in the discussion phase and if we decided to implement it, perhaps making it available after a certain time or at a certain blind level, it would require development time.
It seems that maybe you aren't thinking about this enough. What is stopping people from chopping to gain VPPs currently? All you need to do is agree to go allin first hand and send the difference after the total amount of chopping is done (whether sent on Stars or elsewhere). I could be wrong but it doesn't seem like this is a situation that people take advantage of currently. Perhaps someone who is good with the numbers of the VPP system would know how often this would be a profitable thing to do anyway. It doesn't seem like it would be that hard to trace how many chops occur between certain players if it is that big of a concern.

Another radical idea that was brought up before in this thread is to just make the chop rake and VPP free. If two players who did not want to play each other get matched up only because of your lobby system then if would only seem fair to let them cancel the game if they both choose. I guess what is fair probably doesn't matter though if it does not directly benefit Stars bottom line. Happy players will tend to be more loyal and beneficial in the long run however.

Last edited by ShaneO19; 04-18-2012 at 12:35 PM. Reason: ^^ post above already covers much of this, left the reply box open too long
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04-18-2012 , 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneO19
Another radical idea that was brought up before in this thread is to just make the chop rake and VPP free. If two players who did not want to play each other get matched up only because of your lobby system then if would only seem fair to let them cancel the game if they both choose. I guess what is fair probably doesn't matter though if it does not directly benefit Stars bottom line. Happy players will tend to be more loyal and beneficial in the long run however.
This seems like a stunningly good and simple idea.
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04-18-2012 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneO19
Another radical idea that was brought up before in this thread is to just make the chop rake and VPP free. If two players who did not want to play each other get matched up only because of your lobby system then if would only seem fair to let them cancel the game if they both choose. I guess what is fair probably doesn't matter though if it does not directly benefit Stars bottom line. Happy players will tend to be more loyal and beneficial in the long run however.
that's a great idea but obv has flaws. I think good regs will now choose to chop even with bad regs just to play against players where they have massive edge. I think rake reduction/VPP free will be a solution if Stars worries about people chopping to gain VPPs
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04-18-2012 , 03:10 PM
There's no inherit right to play whoever you want. Stars isn't taking advantage of anybody by not allowing you to chop rake free.

There's also a reason why regs would be sitting at the same time a high % of the time (think: not many other players playing at those buyins at the same time).

If it's a problem, self regulate via a skype chat or AIM or even throw $50 each and have a competent programmer build you some register que so you don't sit at the same time.

Pavels concern is quite a large one. As of now, there is a clear small penalty for chopping with somebody, so you're better off playing most anybody you think you can breakeven against (unless there are tons of fish about, in which case the chopping thing isn't even a concern). With a rake free chop that really encourages even more chops than happen now (and we see how many go on just based on the amount of times someone doesn't send back right away and then posts on 2p2 about it).

Also no poker room, including the beloved FTP, has ever had rake free chops as far as I know.
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04-18-2012 , 03:33 PM
rake free chop is bs.
but I dont see why stars is afraid that people will use chop to flip for vpps, you can do that now even w/o the chop button.
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