Hi all,

I was wondering a bit on the lines people take for cbetting on flops with bottom/mid pairs, was wondering why we do what we do.

Assume you are SB, being dealt 6 7 against unknown opponent, early in the game, hyper. You min-raise button 80%+ as standard early strat, villain flats. Board comes 6 9 Q.

Assuming a standard-ish blind flatting range (loosely, around 40% of hands), you have around 50% equity against villains range. Should you c-bet..

As I saw from most videos, most players would c-bet mid pair and check behind bottom pair. Obviously bet top pair or better, unless opponent gives you reasons not to. But does that make sense?

If the midcard pairs on the board on turn/river, our range improves tremendously. Bottom card pairing looks less likely to scare villain out of the hand. The chance of this happening is pretty much the same (slightly more likely that villain holds blocker to middle card than bottom). Then why not value/bluff bottom pair and check behind mid?

The benefits of doing so in my opinion:
1. Easier to play. Betting all pairs or better on such a flop is likely too wide against most opponent, and if getting xr on flop, bottom pair is easier decision than mid pair (for a short stacked hyper decision making at least).
2. Bottom pair is in more danger to be outdrawn (say, by some random Ax), but the chance of mid/bottom improving is (almost) the same.
3. Some small value out of pocket pairs that might beat bottom but not middle card.

Does my reasoning make sense? I guess the GTO would be betting a percentage of both bottom and mid pairs, but since rarely will we get to showdown without a value hand here & we won't play the same opponent again too often (not at my stakes at least ), would bottom pair c-bet + midpair check be a better overall strategy than the other way around?

All input appreciated.

makes perfect sense.
u want to check back so villain cant just always bet whenever you check behind the flop.
dont miss valuebets, especially with pairs of jacks. Jacks are awesome!

First of all if you have any qustions about when to c-bet or overall strategy the FAQ forum can prove very very useful.
Now I gues your reasoning makes sense but I think most of the time your decisions about c-betting rely on your opponents tendencies.
Assume that you decide to play an opponent for like 5 matches and villain is a goddish player that can read hands and adjust ok to your strategy,good??You are in the 5th match and you continue on with your strategy by checking 2nd pairs and betting your third pairs.I think your opponent will check-raise you a ton on flops with his complete air and of course his semi bluffing hands(FD,OESD,pair+gutters) and you'll just have to fold what could possibly be the best hand.Dont forget that when an opponent manages to make you leave equity and money on the table he will always win.
I think that you should mix up your strategy but yeah first or second match readless yeah I like your approach cause by betting your 3rd pairs that most of the players out there check for SDV is a good strategy to make your opponents take wrong decisions about your range cause imagine if the bottom pair doubles and you improve to trips.It will b very difficult for him to put you in that hand cause he will say''Nah,he doesn't bet his 3rd pair on the flop!''
I like your approach but what I am trying to point out here is the obvious.Do not stick o a strategy you think is winning cause it will end up being exploitable and may cost you a lot of money.
My advice is to readjust to your opponent as soon as you perceive that your opponent readjusted to you.Plus if you only bet your third pairs and check back your second pairs youe betting and checking back ranges on the flop becomes unbalanced.Good players will notice that and start to exploit you!
Don't get me wrong,balance isn't the key to win at poker matches.It's your ability to adjust to your opponent and make him exploitable.
I hope I helped!

In general, I would cbet for value if I had greater than 50% equity when called. This rarely happens with bottom pair unless your opponent is floating you a lot with Ace/King high type hands. Another thing to consider, is that on your Q96 example, a hand like JT is favored versus bottom pair, and even KT (gutshot + 2 overs) has ~40% equity. So if you bet bottom pair and get called, you are either slightly ahead or way behind, making very hard to have 50% equity when called. In fact, in that example, I would consider checking hands like T9 & J9 since they block the straight draws that might call, but I would definitely bet weaker 9s that do not block draws.

+1

I wouldn't cbet bottom pair in the hopes of hitting trips, as it only happens 8% by the river, and your trips would only be 'disguised' for well thinking players who actively think about your range and don't include bottom pair in your flop cbetting range.

And like mentioned above, is villain is a thinking player, he'll often c/r your cbet once he notices you often cbet bottom pairs, so you won't even have the chance to improve your hand