perhaps not trashtalking fishes would be a good idea as well....

Obviously opponents are playing higher quality poker, but so are you. How profitable the games are depend on the magnitude of that difference in skill. Nobody's making the argument that opponents aren't improving, I know you're smart enough to pick that nuance up.

Poker education is pretty clearly not the reason why sites are having trouble attracting new players.

no, but its a reason why they are losing players faster

Here's who poker education sucks for: People who are really good at figuring out the game on their own and don't like the model of learning from other people. Poker education helps most people. It sucks for the people who don't have much to get out of it, either because they aren't good at or don't want to learn that way. Maybe occasionally it's also "don't have anything to get from it", but now we're talking about the very cream of the crop, the few most talented people in the world, who tend to laugh at the notion that 50 regs are going to become as good as they are.

I'm someone who benefits a ton from learning from what other people have to say, I'm not so sure my mind is as innovative as it would have to be for me to do it alone. Watching videos, talking with friends, and reading strategy threads on 2+2 got me to the level of skill I have now, a level that earned me a **** ton of money. Poker education was great for my games.

It goes back to yaqh's point: Poker is a constant sum game. If poker education is bad for one group of people, it's good for another group of people.

"I know you're smart enough to pick that nuance up" just wow lol. Let's just say I'm gonna hold my tongue on that comment. I honestly don't understand the position that you're trying to take in this conversation Mers. Your main point seems to be that the games are still beatable and that if players continue to improve, they'll still be able to win despite their opponents improving. That doesn't strike me as particularly insightful. Can you just answer this very basic question. Do you think your book will contribute (even if its very small) to making players better players and therefore the games less profitable overall?

Livbs arguments seem valid, however i do not think they are valid for livb. What are you concerned about olivier? You obviously have an amazing talent, one which the whole population bar a select few are capable of. Besides, anybody that is capable of reaching the level of challenging you for lobbys will have the abillity to figure out whats in this book on their own.

The internet makes communication tough, I didn't mean that sarcastically. Apologies if it came across as snarky/condescending, I can see that interpretation now.

As for your question, I've said it like 15 times in this thread, people who read this ebook and work hard at growing from it will be better off for it having existed, just like the people who read spamz's HH reviews and worked hard at growing from them were better off for them having existed (I'm one of them), just like people who read jay_shark's statistical posts and worked hard at growing from them were better off for them having existed (again, I'm one of them), just like people who make the use of current free poker education tools and work hard at growing from them are better off for them having existed (once more, I'm one of them). This ebook will suck for people who don't read it or don't get much out of it for one reason or another (in your case, because you're the GOAT). It will make certain players better relative to the curve and more profitable and other players less profitable. It's not particularly insightful and I never claimed it was.

That could be the point. Anyway, im a LowStakes Player and have to work on my Game! And Im verry happy to get good vids at husng.com ( Mers is my Favourite as I wrote few days somewhere here)

So this is no critical post jus maybe the truth

You agree it will make some players better and more able to make more money. From your perspective, that's a bad thing. That's understandable. For those players it will help make more money, it's not a bad thing.

The crux of our argument is in which people it will help the most - your claim centers on the belief that it will help mediocre regs the most, causing a ton of good players who can't beat each other. I think it will help the talented and the hardworking the most (except for the 1% of that group, like yourself). I think the millionaire 1% club will do just fine and I think plenty of mediocre regs will get knocked down a peg by more talented, more hardworking players who make a lot of money from this book (and poker education in general).

People who read all 11 spamz HH threads were vastly better off for those threads existing than not. The most talented players made a combined fortune off of the insights there. Knowledge in the public domain makes the games more difficult for players who already have that knowledge or don't obtain it, but it does not categorically mean that more games are less profitable for everybody, far from it. It also serves an opportunity to see who can get the most out of what's available in public and lets some players prosper wildly because of the available knowledge, far far beyond how they would have done without the information being released. Those people are often innovated, hardworking, brilliant people. I like those people. Alternatively, they could be people like me. I like people like me, too.

With all due respect to your skill and success...

GTFO.

You can not even learn (or adapt) to being nice or civil to a reg in a husng. So I certainly do not understand how you can expect so many fish to improve from an ebook.

Ok just like I thought this whole time, we agree. Your book will help some people and hurt others. I was just pointing out that the 2nd group is massively bigger than the first. This community, however, is obviously much more represented by the first group.

As for me personally, I agree that this book won't affect me much. I don't really play STTs that much and depending on what happens with US legislation, I'll prolly play less and less HU SNGs. Furthermore, I was on pace to have my best year ever and still had a decent year playing basically 6-7 months worth. If this book has any direct consequence for me, it might even create more "regs", which is better for me not worse.

Fwiw, I wish you the best with this book Mers. I'm sure you worked very hard on it and I hope it is well received. I think people who understand the value of teaching, in almost any context, are very important and should be appreciated. Going to sleep and leaving Prague tomorrow so I wont respond here anymore. Gl everyone.

you only really embarassed yourself there for showing you don't understand livbs point

had my biggest lsing day in a while. just the table of contents was too much info.

If this is directed at me, you embarrassed yourself there for showing you don't understand my point

If it is not, disregard.

your point was you were trying to make fun of livb, was it not?

amen bro, i've seen more bayesian inferences by my opponents just in the last few days than i've seen all year

Sigh, let's start a new thread.

Itried I did not understand your post either. Your post had nothing to do w/ what you quoted.

I agree with this, would also expand it to say that anybody with Google has the ability to make this help for them. The group of people that this hurts is recreational players who will never see it and groups of more serious players that don't get anything out of this for one reason or another. Players who read it and apply it will benefit from it in general.

I actually agree with this too, just figured it was a harder sell than some of my other arguments.

Appreciate the kind words and the fair discussion (I hope you saw my side similarly), very genuine best of luck with everything!

i would have liked to understand livb's point, but i guess i'm too stupid

At the beginning he was saying games were going to get overall tougher because of this book, and in his last post, he says this book will help the very tinier part of the players.

games getting tougher means book helps the big portion. but his last post contradicts himslef by saying book will help the little part of the players who study. i guess i have to sleep to understand correctly where i misunderstood... or if someone can point me in the right direction perhaps.

Oh, and a quick point on ego. Obviously part of the reason of doing this is ego. It feels cool to write an ebook and be able to say things that give good insight to people. It's like I'm super knowledgeable on this **** or something. That's a fun feeling. I'm going to like, post it on facebook, and ****. All the cute boys I know will be like "oooooo mersenneary, he's like an author, kind of". It'll be great. A decade from now there will be an ebook out there with my name on it and a lot of views and people will say, "yeah, that's what people used to say about how to play heads up poker. That was the 2011 mentality. Look what people believed back then!"

I think best cure for abuses of ego is being open to its effects and being able to laugh openly at it. So pretending you don't do things with ego as a component is a bit silly, as livb recognizes. There are other components too, though, I think. I hope.

Talked with Hundrye via skype about it. I was just saying that I think it is awful for him to discuss ego in regards to something like this, given what he has said in chat previously. I quoted/worded it badly which led to the confusion.

Sorry to momentarily hijack the good discussion of the thread.