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Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Do we need reads to double and triple barrel?

03-10-2012 , 07:25 AM
+1 on what has been said.

Board is good but bet less ott, you wan't his range to be the weaker possible to have a good amount of fold but by betting big you are narrowing it!
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-10-2012 , 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakg
yo miniwiz the point is "readless" i know all those other factors obv helps you take decisions, but im trying to think about readless optimal frequencies, against near accurate ranges of xc xc x?

good stuff motown ty
At these stakes i'd imagine people call too light so readless i wouldn't bluff.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-10-2012 , 07:59 AM
I don't think you need reads per se, in general, to make a bluff. If you pick up reads early that give you a good reason not to bluff a good board thats fine, but if you wait for good reads before ever making bluffs I think you pass up too many good spots. Besides, making the bluff will probably give you the read early on.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-10-2012 , 09:12 AM
yeah dont get why people are even claiming this isnt a good board to bluff
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-10-2012 , 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcolt
yeah dont get why people are even claiming this isnt a good board to bluff
Cuz he got called obv.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-10-2012 , 10:13 AM
i am not sure how the $14 play

but I like the idea of betting 120 on the turn then give up.
if I would go 3 streets i would make is smaller on the turn 70-90

edit: looking back at the board i think going 3 streets have better ev then 120 bet on turn still a +ev bet
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-10-2012 , 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by siiCards
i am not sure how the $14 play

but I like the idea of betting 120 on the turn then give up.
if I would go 3 streets i would make is smaller on the turn 70-90

edit: looking back at the board i think going 3 streets have better ev then 120 bet on turn still a +ev bet
this is NOT the board to two barrel and give up on the river, just look at the actual hand villain has and think about it
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-10-2012 , 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by siiCards
120 bet on turn still a +ev bet
I don't agree turn is a +ev bet if you check the river btw.

The way this board ran out a 3 barrel looks good, I'm not sure if it's +ev to 3barrel say an A high board on say A95shh/8c/3c readless.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-10-2012 , 08:29 PM
I have been looking at my HM history and it seems I am profitable when making double barrel on these kinds of boards but not triple barrel. Maybe because stationy players call down turn he will call down river wide. Although the sample is really small.

When I was playing my thinking was he does not have an Ace 90% of the time. A lot of Aces raise pre-flop and raise the flop. The reason I bet more on the turn is to get a bit more folds from him because I am happy to take it down. If I don’t take it down on the Turn I am willing to bluff many rivers.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-10-2012 , 11:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimsonchin
this is NOT the board to two barrel and give up on the river, just look at the actual hand villain has and think about it
Um, the lower the stakes the greater cred given to the FD even if it doesn't make sense? That's just my donkey low stakes opinion but just sayin' ... low stakes player are obsessed with the FD.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-11-2012 , 05:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSide11
This has been happening to me a lot. Do I need reads to do this? Should I not do this early in the game just in case I am playing a calling station?
Early in the game without much reads, you can't really tell if he's a big station or not

I like your play here, nh. You prolly have to triple barrel on a lot of river though to make sure he folds his 6x and most 7x.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-11-2012 , 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLusty
Um, the lower the stakes the greater cred given to the FD even if it doesn't make sense? That's just my donkey low stakes opinion but just sayin' ... low stakes player are obsessed with the FD.
Sorry, what are you trying to say?
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-11-2012 , 02:58 PM
you can barrel and if he calls light, valuebet him hardly next game and win it back
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-11-2012 , 03:19 PM
imo you can double barrel this board if you have reads that opponent will fold weak made hands (middle and weak pairs). Equity wise most turn cards are going to help his flatting range and the river card does not help your range.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-11-2012 , 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by erdnase17
imo you can double barrel this board if you have reads that opponent will fold weak made hands (middle and weak pairs). Equity wise most turn cards are going to help his flatting range and the river card does not help your range.
Wait, why is that?
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-12-2012 , 07:29 AM
No, we dont need reads to 3barrel bluff.
Yes, this is a good spot to 3barrel bluff.
Bad luck in this spot though.

Id bet 90 ott btw.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-12-2012 , 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mela
Wait, why is that?
1. turncards overall improve our range. Why is that? We rep draws, he aint.
2. rivercard same thing. 4x imrpoves our range which includes draws. he doesnt have draws in his ranges cauz who would c/c c/c c/x draws?


to answer your question: its not.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-12-2012 , 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomfred
1. turncards overall improve our range. Why is that? We rep draws, he aint.
2. rivercard same thing. 4x imrpoves our range which includes draws. he doesnt have draws in his ranges cauz who would c/c c/c c/x draws?


to answer your question: its not.
I was thinking about this particular hand vs a hypothetical flatting range. But we should be thinking range vs range and our semi-bluffing range on this board certainly includes flush draws and what I said is not true in this instance.

Last edited by erdnase17; 03-12-2012 at 11:52 AM.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-12-2012 , 11:50 AM
If you bet turn,you have to fire most rvers. But i still say checking is better readless at lowstakes, where people don't really like folding pairs. And it's not like if you check turn you can't bluff river if it gets checked to you.Fish we'll be less likely to call a river bluff when they don't have much invested,compared to when they have a decent % of their stack in.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-12-2012 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by miniwiz
If you bet turn,you have to fire most rvers. But i still say checking is better readless at lowstakes, where people don't really like folding pairs. And it's not like if you check turn you can't bluff river if it gets checked to you.Fish we'll be less likely to call a river bluff when they don't have much invested,compared to when they have a decent % of their stack in.
do you comfortably jam any Tx on the river? i think you should if triple barrelling is bad here, because people tend to play their monsters differently alot of the time and there is more 6/7x than Ax in their ranges.

bolded part: i disagree, one thing i noticed when playing some non-hypers again is that people tend to fold less often to triple barrells when facing a non-ai bet. the size of the pot seems less important than the fear of investing all their chips.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-12-2012 , 02:06 PM
how is it a triple barrel if we check turn.I was talking about checking turn.And tons of rivers we can bluff if he checks. Any 8+ that doesn't pair the board.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-13-2012 , 05:51 AM
you argued that triple barrelling would be worse than b/ck/b, no? i disagree and explained why.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-13-2012 , 06:33 AM
i said we could bluff river if he checks.We can get some timing tells etc.
Just because this is a good spot to barrel at higher stakes doesn't mean it's good at low stakes. My advice is to try to stay away from triple barreling as a bluff pretty much at low stakes.Lots of times you end up doing it on the wrong boards,or not fire river after firing turn. Your main goal should be to move up at stakes,and bluffing in spots you are not really sure about at low stakes where people don't really like to fold,is not the best idea. Also you'll experience more variance,and that means your play will deteriorate because you get tilted and can end up spewing stacks.
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote
03-13-2012 , 06:54 AM
not knowing what boards to triple barrel or not be able to complete the plan and check a river that should have been bet otherwise because his range is weak doesnt mean that triple barrel isnt profitbale at low stakes, itmeans you are doing it wrong (if you state those 2 reasons)
Do we need reads to double and triple barrel? Quote

      
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