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Computing allin ev by hand Computing allin ev by hand

02-05-2013 , 11:39 AM
I am trying to write a script that would compute automatically allin ev % for the played hypers and so I need some help to see if I have the math figured right.

Here is an example:

hero went vs villain allin 3 times:

1) hero 35% to win, hero 700 chips villain 300 chips, hero loses
2) hero 53% to win, hero 370 chips villain 630 chips, hero wins
3) hero 80% to win, hero 710 chips villain 290 chips, hero wins

for the 1st allin hero wins the game 35% and 65% game is still played
for the 2nd allin hero loses the game 47% out of the previous 65% which means 30.55% he will lose the game (47% * 65%)
for the remaining 34.45% of cases (100.0-35-30.55) we reach the 3rd allin which hero wins 80% and loses 20%, when he wins he wins the game, when he loses he has 420 chips left so around 42% chances to win the game, so 34.45*(80+8.4) = 30.453% to win (42*20% = 8.4)

per total given this chain of allins hero should win the game around 65.45% of times

now: if this is a $15 hyper then rake is $0.31
if hero wins he wins $14.38 (2*14.69-15)
if he loses he loses $15
so if he wins the game 65% of times then his expected win is:
65.45 * 14.38 + 34.55*-15 = $4.229

Does it makes sense ? Sorry if this seems unnecessary complicated, best way I can explain it - would appreciate anyone checking this for errors

HEM gives an allin ev around $7.31
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02-05-2013 , 12:31 PM
Couldn't you mimic the way HEM calculates allin ev $ (by taking the $ev diff at each allin) and then working out the allin ev % from there?
Computing allin ev by hand Quote
02-05-2013 , 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Sticks
Couldn't you mimic the way HEM calculates allin ev $ (by taking the $ev diff at each allin) and then working out the allin ev % from there?
HEM got me starting looking into my own way
As you might know their latest version has $ev adjusted disabled and as far as I read here it is not accurate for hypers which might explain a few things
So I would like to solve it in a way that seems logical to me and any help in this direction would be so very nice!
Computing allin ev by hand Quote
02-05-2013 , 01:19 PM
Oh I didn't know about that, I've switched to PT4 now and the HEM ev line seemed fine to me before. Does that issue affect hu hypers as well as 6max?
For your calculations, I think you need to consider the chip amounts at each allin because if, for example, Hero in hand 1 has 900 chips instead of 700 chips, you would get the same answer which would be incorrect.
Computing allin ev by hand Quote
02-05-2013 , 01:21 PM
I wrote a PM to ChicagoRy about EV, not sure where he'll put it if he thinks it is useful but until then just going to copy it here and see what people think.

EV equity calculations is relatively easy to figure out, although looks complicated on the face of it. All we have to do is take the total amount of chips and total amount won to decide out equity per chip, and then use that to find the amount we have run above or below EV per all in in a game, and simply add those together to find out how we have done in the game itself. The calculations, therefore, are set out below.

1. Find the total amount of winnings post rake.
2. Find the total amount of chips in play
3. Divide the winnings by the chips, giving us an equity calculation per chip in game. This will be referred to as individual chip equity.
4. Find every all in pot you have been in through the game. You will need to calculate your EV for all pots and then add them together to find your EV for the game as a whole.
5. For every pot find how many chips were involved in the pot.
6. Time the amount of chips by the individual chip equity. Keep this number in mind. This will be total pot equity.
7. Take your percentage and use this to find your equity in the pot in dollars. Do this by dividing the total pot equity by 100, and multiplying it by your equity.
8. If you lost this pot, this will be your equity. If you win the pot, your equity will be Total pot equity minus this number.

Therefore, as a demonstration, here's a game of mine.

It was at the 30s Hyper, and therefore total winnings were $58.74 and total chips were 1000. This gives an individual chip equity of 0.05874.

I have one all in, and therefore only need the equity from one pot.

The pot is worth 540 chips, and therefore the total pot equity is $31.7196.

My hand equity is 40.5%. Therefore my equity in the pot is 40.5% of the $31.7196 which is $12.85 (when rounded up) Because I lost the hand (I run bad) and it was the only pot this is my equity for the game. Had I won it however, my equity would have been 31.7196 - 12.85 = $18.87 (once again rounded up).

And it's as easy as that. Simply do that for all your all in pots, and it should come out correct.

-Jay
Computing allin ev by hand Quote
02-06-2013 , 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Sticks
Does that issue affect hu hypers as well as 6max?
Hu hypers definitely as far as I've read, 6max no idea, probably yes if you are involved in a lot of allins in those, no otherwise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Sticks
For your calculations, I think you need to consider the chip amounts at each allin because if, for example, Hero in hand 1 has 900 chips instead of 700 chips, you would get the same answer which would be incorrect.
Not quite, if hero has 900 chips then when he loses the allin villain will have a much shorter stack at second allin. So it won't produce the same answer
Computing allin ev by hand Quote
02-06-2013 , 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adversity
4. Find every all in pot you have been in through the game. You will need to calculate your EV for all pots and then add them together to find your EV for the game as a whole.
Looks a bit like what I am doing but you are doing it with chip value during the calculations instead of after. However I do have one problem with the above method, I don't think you should just add EV after multiple allins, there should be some multiplication in there somewhere. Could you please show us a game where you had 2-3 allins, with hero/villain stacks and hero allin win% included and final $ev computed by your method ? Would help in seeing side by side with my method.

What I am doing in my code - of which I tried to present a simplified version in the example hand - is this:

1) make a list of all allins and relevant information
2) for each allin: compute ev_win, ev_draw, ev_loss (given chip stacks after hero wins/draws/loses the hand)
if it is not last hand in the allin list then substitute one of those with the ev computed for the following hands (i.e. if hero wins an allin then we know ev_win that occured in the real hand and use that to replace the theoretical one)
3) step 2) gives us a win% for the whole game, use this and the buy-in to figure out $ev

Hope it kind of makes sense, it's much easier to code it than explain it
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