I was looking at the better than Nash charts. It says to push k3o at 11bb. I know most of you say you should not just push over 8bb. I know that. What is a good poker calculator if you were to min raise 11bb deep and were to fold to a shove? I am trying determine when to min raise fold and when to shove at blinds above 8bb. Is there charts out there for min raise fold/call depending on there shove range? Also are you more likely to shove against players who are difficult to play post flop? Would you then shove with k3o at 11bb. Thoughts?
Well it's a Chubukov jam at 10.7bb... ROFL says minraise fold. Which is probably a better default strat. But there are plenty of low stakesers it'll probably fare better as a jam.
If a villain is calling very wide or never 3betting but playing back on flops (which isn't that frequent at low stakes) then I think it works better as a shove.
Looking at ICMIZER if we give villain a 32% call jam range then jamming K3o at 11bb is 2.7 chips better than folding. If you put in exactly the Nash calling range for 11bb then jamming gets +2.9 chips better than folding. So shoving K3o at 11bb is a good baseline when you're not sure which option will be most profitable against an opponent. However, if you think you can do better than 2.7 chips by minraising or limping go for it.
By default - vs. an (pretty much) unknown villain - I openshove low Kx suited at that stack depth and minraise / fold hands like K2o, K3o. Don't know if that's optimal.
I don't care (much) about Sklansky/Chubukov like I did in the past... villain isn't god or a superuser and can't see my cards.
Don't forget doing better than Nash doesn't mean you never follow it. It might be best to shove K3o regardless of what chart you follow, and you can improve on other hands.
Don't forget doing better than Nash doesn't mean you never follow it. It might be best to shove K3o regardless of what chart you follow, and you can improve on other hands.
I guess I am looking for thoughts on when to raise, min raise, shove 10 to 15 bb. Against certain players. I am going to some work with icmizer. To help me determine when to minraise and shove.
Nash say 8 bbs as btn?
I think Ur reading wrong chart.
Pretty sure u can profitably shove for 11 to 12 vs most players and raise call vs some and limping seems fine some of the time.
I was looking at the better than Nash unexploitable pushes and push fold charts, they are different push fold charts are much wider for heads up. Why is this?
Generally speaking, forget Nash above 10bb, you'll hurt yourself using it.
Below 10bb, start thinking about what your average opponent does.
As coffeeyay correctly points out in his video, the average opponent he's found has been a little tighter OOP than Nash BB calling ranges, so it makes sense (readless) to push a little wider.
Now, you always want to use information you see in the game to really help guide and mold these ranges. If a guy is folding quite often OOP, start jamming nearly any hand. It doesn't take much, especially at 7bb or less, to just jam most or all of your buttons vs an opponent.
Understanding how to adjust with the information is much better than blindly using a chart. I understand charts make you feel good, they give you confidence in your decision making, but something like the Nash charts are simply too general and not directly applicable to too many situations you'll be in to use.
Bolded part does not compute. Also if you found charts from that guy called riskoriented I would just unlearn everything and do your own calculations.
Yes it was. No good? Why? What about push/fold charts.com? I have been using sage for bb7 and below. I think I will widen them a little readless. Then adjust vs player type. Because of coffeeyay video above. Maybe invest in heads hyper turbo pack husng. I really need to work on my 10 to 20 bb game. Hem says I struggle there. I want to add hyper s. I just play turbo's now. Thoughts?
You should be playing shove or fold poker 10-20bb anyways. You can open shove some hands, and open fold others, but you're talking about using charts that do not take into consideration the value of limping or minraising, which are the two most common actions to take at the 10-20bb area.
You have four basic decisions at 10-20bb stacks in the small blind.
Raise less than shove (usually minraise).
Limp.
Fold.
Raise all in.
Nash, Sage or any "push fold" chart only accounts for the last two options. It doesn't even consider the first two. How relevant would a book that only talked about slow cook smoking or microwaving every type of food be to a cook looking for the best method of cooking food? Grill, pan fried, oven baked, etc. are much more common and wouldn't even be considered.
Charts are popular because they represent an easy decision. Unfortunately, in creating an easy decision, you also lose the best decision quite often when you use the charts.
That's not to say charts are bad, they just aren't really built for what people often use them for, at least at 10bb+.
