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01-26-2015 , 02:44 PM

Ellzebub

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 207

28 hand sample. villain opened 9 out of 14 hands for a min rse and had cbet close to 100%. He folded the one time i c/raised earlier in the match also, so I decided to min c/r with the intention of barreling off on decent turn and river cards if he called.

Just wanna check that the ace is an ok river to jam given the possible wheel draws in villains range. Am i right in saying I don't need to worry about them as it's only a small part of his range?

Poker Stars, $14.39 Buy-in (20/40 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #34445481

SB: 1,065 (26.6 bb)
Hero (BB): 1,935 (48.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

SB raises to 80, Hero calls 40

Flop: (160) 3

(2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets 80, Hero raises to 160, SB calls 80

Turn: (480) T

(2 players)
Hero bets 140, SB calls 140

River: (760) A

(2 players)
Hero bets 1,555 and is all-in, SB folds

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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01-27-2015 , 08:29 AM

ValuetownJL

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 1,436

You can pretty easily flat this flop

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01-27-2015 , 08:39 AM

PantherBoy

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 227

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValuetownJL

You can pretty easily flat this flop

I think checkraise is fine since we want some high EQ hands to our checkraising range. As played i play it the same, put on the pressure wp.

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01-27-2015 , 12:17 PM

daviid

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,639

Quote:

Originally Posted by PantherBoy

I think checkraise is fine since we want some high EQ hands to our checkraising range. As played i play it the same, put on the pressure wp.

its weird cause this doesnt look like a level.

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01-27-2015 , 12:51 PM

Ellzebub

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValuetownJL

You can pretty easily flat this flop

Thanks

I chose to c/r because villain had been cbetting and barreling a high %. With so many turn and rivers that I could either rep or pick up equity on c/raising seemed like a better option. Is this not a decent spot to make this play vs this opponent?

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01-27-2015 , 02:07 PM

none888

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,665

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellzebub

PantherBoy answered this, check/raise is fine

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01-28-2015 , 04:34 AM

NoMoneyHU

banned

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 182

not a big fan on the river shove, obv he is fos, but a smaller bet would get the job done imo

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01-28-2015 , 06:07 PM

plx

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 219

expensive bluff, works well against the pool though. I would be tempted to call you because i'am a calling station and you don't rep much here.

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01-28-2015 , 08:16 PM

Everest17

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 3,235

turn barrel is not convincing whatsoever imo

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01-28-2015 , 10:20 PM

#10

Ellzebub

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everest17

turn barrel is not convincing whatsoever imo

I was unsure about my turn sizing when i looked back at the hand. I bet small for value to price in as wide a range as possible with the intention of taking it down otr, and to allow myself to comfortably get away from the hand if a bad river card fell. Also I wanted to make sure I had a decent sized bet left otr for the added fold equity. So yeah, I'm really not too sure what the optimal betsize is ott. I'm interested to hear other views on this...

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01-30-2015 , 04:05 AM

#11

pa3pyxa1

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 50

if I'm in villain shoes here i would probably think you have A8 here, maybe AT that wasn't 3bet pre and some odd 88, ... and I am calling you with bluffcathers

On the other hand I think we have a nice hand to try a bluff, but we shouldnt overdo it in this spot

Last edited by pa3pyxa1; 01-30-2015 at 04:13 AM.

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01-31-2015 , 12:16 AM

#12

edwin11

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 90

If he barrels a lot, have you thought about check raising turn if he barrels it? Then betting river as bluff. If he checks through turn after you check call flop with intention of check raising river, you can just donklead river as a bluff.

I´m a noob, but just wondered if you had considered that line. To me it looks stronger than the check raising flop and can work out cheaper.

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01-31-2015 , 06:03 AM

#13

none888

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,665

how its cheaper... any bluff line you take here, you will be all in on river

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01-31-2015 , 08:31 PM

#14

Quimp

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,130

You're on to something here Ellzebub. The turn bet is (part of) your profit, so I'd like to make it slightly bigger.

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01-31-2015 , 11:13 PM

#15

ThatsAGoodCard

banned

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,885

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quimp

You're on to something here Ellzebub. .

lol

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02-01-2015 , 12:25 AM

#16

Quimp

adept

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,130

Can you elaborate why you think it's so terrible?

Villain opened 9/14 opportunities, so in all likelihood he's too tight/careful and won't realize we rep little.

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02-02-2015 , 03:18 AM

#17

edwin11

enthusiast

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by none888

how its cheaper... any bluff line you take here, you will be all in on river

True that. I guess I just thought check jamming the turn looked stronger, especially on a board like that. Therefore we would get more folds in the long run and make more monies.

I just think check raising flop and barreling three streets is a more suspicious line. I have no facts, just my feelings on it. Players are starting to get pretty decent at eliminating hands from your range when you are shoving the river. The check raise, bet, bet line just seems like it´s in peoples psyche as a bluff more often than the check call, check jam turn line. Or check call, check check, donk lead river line.

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02-02-2015 , 08:10 AM

#18

none888

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,665

Quote:

Originally Posted by edwin11

doesn't matter if this line looks "suspicious", he just doesn't have hands to call us down, esp after calling flop as imo like 50% ppl if not more would raise top pair here, so his range is very weak, 4x,3x, A highs, some broadway overs and straightdraws, and he has to be huge calling station to not fold 4 or 3 here and anyway we don't need to 100% folds to make this play good

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02-02-2015 , 08:36 AM

#19

ficilan

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 434

Quote:

Originally Posted by none888

doesn't matter if this line looks "suspicious", he just doesn't have hands to call us down, esp after calling flop as imo like 50% ppl if not more would raise top pair here, so his range is very weak, 4x,3x, A highs, some broadway overs and straightdraws, and he has to be huge calling station to not fold 4 or 3 here and anyway we don't need to 100% folds to make this play good

A high and 25sd actually got there, the other sd we are beating anyway (other thing is we might get bluffed of the best hand once we check)

May I ask which value hand would you play this way? ch/r,bet,jam
thanks

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02-02-2015 , 08:54 AM

#20

none888

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,665

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficilan

if we bet bigger turn good % of those hands are folding and as I said we cant expect to take it down 100% of the time, villain will hit and we will lose sometimes, that will happen.

why do you ask about value hands? balancing doesn't matter here, but very few, prob 2 pairs +

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02-02-2015 , 09:17 AM

#21

Ellzebub

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 207

Quote:

Originally Posted by none888

What sizing would you suggest ott? Having thought a lot about the hand I'm thinking 180-200 makes more sense but I'm unsure.

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02-02-2015 , 09:37 AM

#22

none888

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,665

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ellzebub

What sizing would you suggest ott? Having thought a lot about the hand I'm thinking 180-200 makes more sense but I'm unsure.

Id choose such sizing that we can jam river with ~2/3 pot size bet

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02-03-2015 , 02:40 AM

#23

pa3pyxa1

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by none888

the only 2pair we can have is A8. If hero min 3bet flop with T8 and A4,A3 than we might have more 2pairs.
On the other hand V can have some overpairs,some sets so I don't think his range is that weak.
Even if he has only bottom pairs, given his preflop and flop tendencies I would think he is reg and probably somehow realize the strenght of his range

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02-03-2015 , 07:28 AM

#24

none888

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,665

Quote:

Originally Posted by pa3pyxa1

overpairs? its like 2 % of total hands wouldn't be worried about them much anyway about what we are arguing? no way this line is -ev vs those tendencies, only question here could be if c/c is better

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02-03-2015 , 07:50 AM

#25

pa3pyxa1

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 50

I am not arguing that the line is -ev. In my first post I said that on the river we rep very little and his range contains many made hands and there are not that many 3x,4x. He wouldnt raise them pre. So we rep little value hands, we bluff with just with few combos to balance. And after we check in this spot we usually check fold so I think his flop and turn decisions are not necessary good/best

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