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 regspeed river decision  regspeed river decision

08-13-2011 , 03:03 PM
Villain is small loser, VPIP 58, PFR 32 (22 hands), LAG. Couple hands earlier check raised like Q89 two clubs flop to my 1/2 c-bet, turn was like 6 of hearts adding heartdraw to the board. And he just overbet jammed the turn.


    Poker Stars, $6.67 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10268582

    SB: 1,370 (68.5 bb)
    Hero (BB): 1,630 (81.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with T A
    SB raises to 40, Hero calls 20

    Flop: (80) J K 5 (2 players)
    Hero checks, SB bets 40, Hero calls 40

    Turn: (160) A (2 players)
    Hero checks, SB bets 120, Hero calls 120

    River: (400) 8 (2 players)
    Hero checks, SB bets 1,170 and is all-in, Hero ???




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     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-13-2011 , 03:24 PM
    shrug fold
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-13-2011 , 05:12 PM
    Umm... I don't really see an autofold here. IMO, the thing to consider is his ability to reevaluate the strength of his hand. I would look for the following info: Does he ever slow down when he is c-betting with air and gets called? does he slow down when he c-bets with a hand, gets called and a scare card hits? Do you have any reads of that kind on him? Besides, i don't see a reason to call the turn with intention to reevaluate on the river against a LAG: Even if he had, say, a king, after you check-called the turn and checked the river he's likely to put you on a jack and bet for value, or on a float with an ace and try to represent an aggressively played broadway draw which happened to get completed. Edit: The second is far more likely because of the bet size on the river.

    Last edited by crymysyn; 08-13-2011 at 05:16 PM. Reason: A typo and a new remark.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-13-2011 , 07:00 PM
    don't overthink this spot imo, he can have tons of better hands and nearly no worse hands for value here.
    also 3betting pre is my standard against loose aggressive opponents.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-13-2011 , 07:11 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ohly
    don't overthink this spot imo, he can have tons of better hands and nearly no worse hands for value here.
    also 3betting pre is my standard against loose aggressive opponents.
    I agree with 3-betting, but as for 'not overthinking'... Well, it's obvious he can have a lot of better hands. But as I said, we can't just call the turn bet and hope, no? Maybe a thin value bet on the river is good (to try and prevent a possible bluff)?
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-13-2011 , 07:30 PM
    3 bet pre and this hand goes a lot smoother.
    As played fold IMO.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 04:55 AM
    Imo 3betting this hand pre, would open the door for LAG opponent to put in light 4th bet with some of the hands, that i have decent equity against like pairs from 22 to 99 and some suited broadway combinations, especially as he is a losing player. Also he would prolly put in a 4th bet with his monsters too. I didn't really want to 3bet fold ATs against this guy, that's why i went for the flatcall.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 05:31 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crymysyn
    I agree with 3-betting, but as for 'not overthinking'... Well, it's obvious he can have a lot of better hands. But as I said, we can't just call the turn bet and hope, no? Maybe a thin value bet on the river is good (to try and prevent a possible bluff)?
    the overthinking part might have been a bit drastic, what i mean is that we are readless and hence this is a simple spot because the average villain has so little air in his range and so few worse value hands that folding to an overshove is trivial. i am not saying that i am giving up otr a 100%, it all depends on the rivercard, his timing and his betsizing.

    about 3betting pre: most people flat 3bets way more often than they should, especially people who open their button very wide and are not particularly good.

    Last edited by ohly; 08-14-2011 at 05:40 AM.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 05:55 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FinalCollision
    Imo 3betting this hand pre, would open the door for LAG opponent to put in light 4th bet with some of the hands, that i have decent equity against like pairs from 22 to 99 and some suited broadway combinations, especially as he is a losing player. Also he would prolly put in a 4th bet with his monsters too. I didn't really want to 3bet fold ATs against this guy, that's why i went for the flatcall.
    Depends if he's 4 bet light before. And A10s is a very good hand HU, obv, so if u don't 3 bet this against this opponent are you saying you're only 3 betting premiums.

    If still prefer flatting, are you flatting AJs, AQo, 99s.....
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 06:25 AM
    AQo+ and 99+ would be my 3betting range in this particular spot, with the intentions of getting it in.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 06:48 AM
    if you only 3bet AQo+ and 99+ you're doing it wrong.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 06:56 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Barbra Streisand
    if you only 3bet AQo+ and 99+ you're doing it wrong.
    Without any reads early in the match against what seems to be a LAG losing player, i think its OK
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 07:00 AM
    heh, if you say so.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 07:10 AM
    Only 3betting AQo+ and 99+ early in the match isn't wrong imo. In my experience these players are extremely loose, and hardly fold to a cbet after you have 3bet them. Which if you missed the board, kinda sucks cause you have to give up most of the time.
    I don't mind sticking to the premium hands to make sure that doesn't happen, plus just flatting with ATs keeps in his weaker Ax hands and other trash hands.

    The river spot, meh it sucks. Since he only has done it 1 time before, I still give him credit. In my experience they usually have it the second time (even maniacs are aware of their image). Also he has shown 3 streets of aggression and no real draws have missed, so you're really just bluffcatching a kamikaze bluff he started on the flop and continued on the turn and river. You still have a lot of BBs left if you fold, you'll probably find a better spot to get it in.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 08:00 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by damanrico
    Only 3betting AQo+ and 99+ early in the match isn't wrong imo. In my experience these players are extremely loose, and hardly fold to a cbet after you have 3bet them. Which if you missed the board, kinda sucks cause you have to give up most of the time.
    with your train of thought ATs is better to 3bet than AQo.
    an opponent that doesn't fold to cbets should prevent you from mindlessly cbetting every flop and c/f turn, but not from 3betting hands that are far ahead of his calling range.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 09:45 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by damanrico
    Only 3betting AQo+ and 99+ early in the match isn't wrong imo. In my experience these players are extremely loose, and hardly fold to a cbet after you have 3bet them. Which if you missed the board, kinda sucks cause you have to give up most of the time.
    I don't mind sticking to the premium hands to make sure that doesn't happen, plus just flatting with ATs keeps in his weaker Ax hands and other trash hands.

    The river spot, meh it sucks. Since he only has done it 1 time before, I still give him credit. In my experience they usually have it the second time (even maniacs are aware of their image). Also he has shown 3 streets of aggression and no real draws have missed, so you're really just bluffcatching a kamikaze bluff he started on the flop and continued on the turn and river. You still have a lot of BBs left if you fold, you'll probably find a better spot to get it in.
    Surely if he rarely folds to 3bets, then 3betting doesn't make him fold weaker aces. 3bet with A10s all day.
     regspeed river decision Quote
    08-14-2011 , 11:14 AM
    lol I flat ATs vs nits just because I don't want them to fold all his worse hands. If he peels a lot, obv 3bet all day.

    Anyway, shrug and fold as mentioned.
     regspeed river decision Quote

          
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