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60s hyper vs fish

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01-05-2014 , 07:28 AM

VasTheGreek

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 126

Spewey or not ?

Poker Stars, $58.74 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #22093491

BB: 640 (21.3 bb)
Hero (SB): 360 (12 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

Hero raises to 60, BB calls 30

Flop: (120) A

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 45, BB calls 45

Turn: (210) 9

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 255 and is all-in, BB calls 255

River: (720) K

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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01-05-2014 , 07:43 AM

ThatsAGoodCard

banned

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,885

I check turn. But I think this could work against 10x.

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01-05-2014 , 08:51 AM

Dudemanuva

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 151

Think cbetting 55 on the turn against fish and shoving river is probably better than shoving turn? Ive been making these small turn cbets in similar spots and shoving rivers recently seems to be working relatively well gives you an extra chance to fold out Qx and Tx

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01-05-2014 , 10:20 AM

VasTheGreek

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudemanuva

yeah might be better and some fishes have Kx there that not folding to jam

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01-05-2014 , 10:21 AM

none888

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,665

I check flop

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01-05-2014 , 01:31 PM

VasTheGreek

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by none888

I check flop

and then folding turn?

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01-05-2014 , 02:01 PM

none888

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,665

if he leads, than yeah, but imo they will give up air here offten

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01-05-2014 , 02:31 PM

laziale87

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 43

I think the only hands he calls flop and folds turn are {T7o, T8o, T4s-T8s, maybe random K5s}. Not enough for barreling imo.

I like none888's way of thinking here.

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01-05-2014 , 09:38 PM

VasTheGreek

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 126

Quote:

Originally Posted by laziale87

I think the only hands he calls flop and folds turn are {T7o, T8o, T4s-T8s, maybe random K5s}. Not enough for barreling imo.

I like none888's way of thinking here.

Titles says fish. doesnt say how much fish to give range of Ts . But anyway i like none888s play myself.

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01-06-2014 , 07:51 AM

#10

Emus

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 839

As played I cbet t40 + give up

I would limp pre + bet t30

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01-06-2014 , 09:17 AM

#11

johnan19888

enthusiast

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 62

am i the only one here who would just shove pre ?

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01-06-2014 , 09:21 AM

#12

Emus

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 839

wo reads vs fish you throw away tons of chips with shoving pf imo

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01-06-2014 , 11:16 AM

#13

yay

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 3,059

shoving pre is fine, definitely not a huge mistake, prefer mr or limp vs fish. but it's definitely not throwing away tons of chips imo

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01-06-2014 , 11:27 AM

#14

Emus

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 839

I used to word tons to place emphases that shoving is a clear no go for me.
I realize now that by typing it, it created the illusion that shoving is significant big EV difference; which is not.

As the exact EV difference is not talked about, nor do I think alot of players want to talk about (I also feel that it is giving away a bit too much), I gonne leave it with this.

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01-06-2014 , 07:07 PM

#15

Armed_Robbery

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 334

it is also pretty irrelevant how big the EV difference is.

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01-07-2014 , 08:44 AM

#16

Emus

adept

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 839

generally spoken, the smaller the EV difference, the better a quick adjustment read based is and also the more impact the used ranges/methods have upon the math and such the more error prone simulations and actual play are.
But this is relatively to all the different EV differences potentially observed over all the different hands you used the ranges/methods upon.

Technically you are correct as we only care about the option with best EV

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01-07-2014 , 11:44 AM

#17

VasTheGreek

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 126

shove vs spewfish > shove vs normal fish
Also i think there is more expectation playing it postflop vs a passive opponent if i play a table or two.

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