Quote:
Originally Posted by Emus
I remember now you talked about this somewhere in the book. Forgot about it while writing my post.
Long shot:
can I conclude that a 'hidden message' in your words is that I focused too much in this hand upon grabbing max EV out of our current hand instead of using the 'indifference of our hand' to set up my complete range to get more EV?
Oh, sorry, I don't think there was any hidden message to be found. Maybe it was a sort of careless post, but OP seemed focused on betting, and I really just meant that OP should consider all his options, i.e. checking in addition to betting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emus
Meaning that this run-out devaluates quit some flop value hands and our
current hand is then best used in check-raise range so our opponent is not capable to value-bet&bluff more wider when we are checking towards him?
Yea I guess we have a good number of Tx hands that really just want to show down at this point. But I'm not suggesting we should intentionally take a lower-than-maximal EV line (for balance or meta or w/e). Spots where that's a reasonable idea come up fairly rarely, especially on the river.
IMO, a better way to look at this possibility is -- if our opponent is going to valuebet&bluff very wide when checked to (either because of his overall tendencies or because he is correctly thinking about our river checking range in his particular hand or because he gets to the river w/ a fairly polarized range) then it actually can become more profitable to check-raise than to bet ourselves on the river.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emus
Or would you say; forget about above paragraphs; your initial post is way better approach?
I do think checking might be best here, although it's kind of a weird spot since we can find a reason to discount most of Villain's range, and it's hard to say how he plays them also.
Checking is much better versus any pure missed draws Villain gets here with -- bluffing when checked to seems way more likely than jamming over a bet. Checking's probably better vs 9x, altho we can discount it since he didn't raise turn.
Betting's probably better than checking versus Tx, altho we can discount these since he didn't raise flop, since he probably calls more than he bets when checked to. I disagree that we can use a much larger sizing if we bet rather than check and let him bet. I imagine we make Tx fold a lot if we jam here.
Versus 8x, ambitious pocket pairs, combo draws which still have some showdown value... I doubt we get much money vs these either way, but maybe he hero calls sometimes, and maybe he turns them into bluffs when checked to sometimes. Vs anything better than a 9, I agree we get it in either way, so it doesn't matter what we do.
I think the size all of those contributions varies a lot from player to player, so without reads, I don't see a strong argument for either betting or checking...
9
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