hey!
villian was a bit passive,my standard is to shove here,but this is the first or sec time he 3b me and i didnt feel good about shoving.
he didnt cbet a lot and few times he raise pre chk flop and fold to my lead.
pre flop? flop? can i fold here?
the truth, i was pretty sure i'm dead here pre&post flop but i couldnt fold.


Poker Stars $6.71+$0.29 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 2 players - View hand 1646009
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN/SB): t1625 27.08 BBs
BB: t1375 22.92 BBs

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is BTN/SB with 9 9
Hero raises to t120, BB raises to t240, Hero calls t120

Flop: (t480) 4 7 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t280, BB raises to t1135 all in, Hero calls t855

U can prob check back on flop here? Now that u have bet I think clicking call is fine here as he can spazz out with his bigger aces and 66/88. You might be being a little results oriented here.

Ship pre, as played call, youll see a ton of worse hands in both spots

+1

After betting i never fold,but pre flop even if is the first time he 3b and his 3b range should be super strong it's easy shove?

i think this is closer than people give credit for, depending on how many hands you are in. the 3bet to 2x from people who rarely 3bet is soo often AA-QQ in my experience, even those people know that it sucks to get called with broadways and hence tend to 3bet much bigger. i personally like flatting 99 in this spot, TT would be my cutoff for shoving.

postflop i cannot find a b/f, you have to assume that he check folds A TON with high cards in comparison to trapping with monsters and ck/shoving overs/bluffs who found some equity to make b/f an ok play. i much prefer checking back or betting and although in the past i bet alot here, i see more merits in checking back, letting him realize 12% equity with overs but fairing much better against his trapping range.

Great tnx

Snap jam this pre, it's not even close. He will have enough overcards in his range. Since you don't really know what this sizing means, you can't pinpoint his range to QQ+ imo.

As played call.

Also, just because this is his 3bet does NOT mean his 3bet range is super strong. You would need a lot more reads to justify that.

terrible advice in the 1st paragraph

We probably have >40% equity versus his calling range and he is as likely to have K8s here as AA imo, so just jam pre. Postflop is MUBS for reals. GII and its not close.

It is a very strong line, but there is as much spaz hands as value hands here imo.

lol@as likely to have K8s as AA here. That's like a random internet fact.

Depends how tight i feel he is.Basically if his value 3bet range is something tight like TT+,AK,AQ,we need him to fold like 20% for the shove to be breakeven.So yeah most of the time i shove this pre.
Flop i think you can b/f if you think villain is that tight that you just call pre.But i think i like a check more since we are still behind his range.

Random internet fact: Thinks I say are opinions.

if you think his 3b range is so heavily weighted toward QQ-AA how are you even calling PF w/ 23bb's eff? You get raped postflop unless we flop a set pretty much..

The more hands other than QQ-AA he has, the less you want to see a flop and let him outplay you. If he has enough of this in his range to justify continuing at all, then you have enough equity to shove.

It is def close between calling and jamming.

I don't agree that we get raped post-flop by a $6 loose passive. If anything, we will play pretty much perfectly vs his range while on the other hand he will def make mistakes vs our hand.

I agree w/ you here, vs most of his range, jamming is better than calling except vs under cards and TT+, but what matters is the difference in ev.

Why u call pre if u dont want to put your chips in on this kind of flop? I would ship pre, as played call flop.

i don't understand why ppl are saying that pre is close.. seems like a snap shove
i see ppl m3b or double the bet like this villain did just so they have initiative post flop

Assuming he never folds to a jam, we need about 45.6% to jam. And 99 has that equity even vs top 8% range.

If the stacks were deeper I can see this becoming close between calling and jamming, but here we don't have much left behind. He can cbet the flop and jam turn, and the flops we can comfortably get it in will mostly be low card ones. On a flop with overcard(s) it kind of becomes a guessing game.

Sorry for multiple posts (forgot to multi quote), but what did you mean by he can make mistakes w/ QQ+ vs our hand if we flat here?

he may miss click open fold otf for example

i am definitely not respected for the money i made with poker, yet people tend to like my posts because i put alot of effort in explaining my reasoning, like i did in the post you are referring to. what you basically said is that i am stupid and cannot think, while telling me what part of my reasoning was wrong would not only help me, but the posters reading your comments. what you are actually producing is worthless, unless one thinks you are that great of a poker mind so that what you say needs no second guessing. i am not convinced yet.


@ punchdancer:
if i were convinced that his range was {AA,KK}, i would be able to profitably setmine. i obviously agree to the statement that from some 3bet frequency on, you are better of 4betshoving than flatting. so there exists one opponent-specific 3betting frequency, at which shoving becomes better than flatting, but also a region of tight 3betting ranges where flatting is superior.

i stated in my first post that for believing that flatting is better than shoving we need pretty strong arguments for his range being tight and value oriented, that's why i asked how many hands in the game this very first 3bet occured. being the first 3bet in the 5th (?) level is indication enough for me that his 3betting range is very tight, assuming hero opens a healthy range.

furthermore, i might have exaggerated with saying that a 2x 3bet is almost always a big pp, but for the playertype who only 3bets once in a bluemoon, it is not impossible to have a 3bet range of {AA-QQ}. and the tighter his experienced 3betting range and the bigger the confidence in our read, the higher is the likelyhood of villain being such a player.

one final advantage i see in flatting: the exact same playertype who 3bets too small plays horribly postflop. instead of cbetting their whole, superstrong range, they check alot to either trap or give up whiffed overcards. depending on our perception of his range we can take advantage of that by either stab/folding small to fold out his equity share, or check it back and get a freecard which he should have prevented us from getting.

.[/QUOTE]

Can we profitably setmine? We're calling 2 bb's to win 25bb's. so we're getting 12.5 to 1, assuming that he gets it in 100% of the time and never set over sets us, and that we always get away from the hand on "good flops" when we don't his our set, I think we're just barely making the cut... so I guess ur right here in an ideal sense... But I don't think it works out to be profitable to setmine when you add in the complicating factors that are inherent in a situation like this.

Yea, jamming will be +EV vs a lot of ranges, but so will calling.

I don't agree that it becomes a guessing game, he will pretty much tell us what he has.

He obv will not make a mistake w/ QQ+, he will make mistakes w/ the other hands in his range tho, AK, AQ, random junk.