Would you play it differently?
My thought was v is holding 2pair or spazzing out with lower A.
Could not see fd playing it this way, so i was near to a lay down, but i couldnt do it.

i might raise bigger otf cause it doesnt really seem to affect the range villain continues with pretty much no matter how big it is (like up to 320ish i guess, maybe slightly less is better). dont really get the question tho. uve been posting a lot of hands recently which leads me to believe that u wouldnt really consider folding this like ever, would u? sry u lost.

If you dont like him reraising you then you should just flat the flop donk.

Well, it was a donk bet wich can mean two things. Strong or weak.
Just calling the donk bet made no sense for me cause the holding is way to strong for that.
As I got the 4b i felt not good anymore cause I thought it looks like trips or two pair on this board texture. I could not see a diamond flush playing a 4b on the flop and I could not see any other draws playing 4b this way.
Aq would 3b pre i guess - so it leaves not much anymore for me wich makes sense here except a very strong holding wich turns holding up and a spazz.
So yeah at this stakes against this opponent I realy felt bad going on with the hand here but I did nonetheless.

And what makes you think I lost the hand?

What makes a holding too strong to just flat and not raise?

I'm curious how you define such a range, which still feels not good enough to gii after a 4b.

I am raising a donkbet here.
I think AK here is a holding i want to play a big pot against if the hand plays out normaly , meaning he just flats my 3b or shoves over it.
The 4b tho, made me feel very uncomfortable at my stakes vs the normal player pool. You dont see it that often at the 15's. I thought ist very strong and turning his hand face up. So the holdings i thought i was up against are trips or two pairs wich against both i would be crushed.
I could not see any other holding playing it that way on this board.

My post here was to determine if I would overdo it with my read here laying it down or not. As you see I didnt lay it down.

I still have no idea how you arrive at the conclusion that AK is too strong to flat flop...

I mean ideally I would like to play a big pot with A high as well if my opponent calls me off with K high.

E.g. on river AA882 if your opponent donks 2x pot and action went check/check, check/check (for some reason), I would only raise with AA, A8, prob only calling with a hand as strong as 88 vs some players if we are deep.

@watergun7

I have no clue why your hanging yourself on the issue "flat his donk or not" here.
The donkbet must be one of your favorite moves.
Boardtexture is AJ4 two diamonds. The double paired board you present is worthless for the texture we got here.
I dont say AK is too strong of a holding in general to not flat a bet.
The board texture matters for sure plus the effective stacks.
So here we did not get a 3b preflop wich we would love and we are 42bb eff.
I raise his stupid donk both to setup stacks to get it in and for info.
The texture at this point isnt much connected yet. So then the 4b gives us a good deal info and thats what i wanted to discuss here .

Sorry but with this Holding AK TP this eff stacks I am NEVER just calling a donk bet here. No way. If you play it that way - do so please.

Yep I do. I pmuch almost always flat here vs 3/4 sized donk bet.

Your right flat is best here.

lol ok. Cool that you agree with me now

btw if i sounded offensive it was unintentional.

Easy raise on flop, we miss so much value by flatting

+1, also are we folding on any turns?, think mostly not, maybe if a diamond hit we might consider it, like the line you took if he is supernitty we might think of flatting there but vs avg player not at all.

If he pots or something on diamonds, I think we can safely fold.

Mela are you raising as an exploitative play?

I wouldn't worry about the distinction between GTO and exp play here, but mostly yes. Meaning, I probably won't have enough bluffs in my raising range.

What I realy miss here is thought process and some ranges.
After giving it some thought I think a flat is best here.
Yes, there is a diamond draw but the board isnt that wet.
So I think by raising we could fold out a lot of his air and small holdings here.
Pretty sure I would call down 3 streets then with AK.

And isnt raising here turning our A face up and getting 1. folds 2. only strong holdings to continue?

@mela
You say we are missing out value by not raising. What range will continue here vs a raise?
Do you agree with me that the 4b, giving the stakes and the player pool looks like turning trips and two pairs face up? If no, how do you see the 4b?

I am deeply dissapointed that you dont militantly defend the donk call on the flop now anymore after you turned me into a believer.

Oh I still would call flop now.

The weakest hand that I would raise for value would be J4. Tbh I think with his bigger betsize on such a board as this, he would have more bluffs in his range which would snap fold to a raise.

My experience and skill is nothing compared to Watergun's and Mela's, but I agree with calling flop, cause this is bluff very often and therefore u will see villain folding very often as well.

We want to get value from mostly weaker Ax which is the part of villain's range that we gain most from raising flop which we block. We would get similar amounts of value vs Jx since he is more likely to fold to further bets on later streets after calling our raise.

I think it's a bad assumption that villain is just never folding much to further aggression after donking flop (although yes- most ppl are a bit stationy). We might as well assume that someone that donk bluffs 3/4 pot no dry A high boards with air would continue bluffing.

Agree with mela (Altho i would raise a ton of air as well) and i think calling would be the exploitative play not raising

But if we're going to raise, we'd raise bigger right? One thing that sucks in this hand is that you close the action by shoving.

OK do you have a better way of arguing to convince me then?

I still don't like raising.