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15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair 15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair
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11-24-2012 , 11:36 AM
#1
Laroutchez
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newbie
Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 38
SB: 500 (25 bb)
Hero (BB): 500 (25 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 Q
SB raises to 40, Hero calls 20

Flop: (80) 8 3 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets 40, Hero???

My std line is to c-call here. Often, i find myself levelled on a lot of turn specially when a good barrel card pops up (sooo many on that board), I end up c-calling turn and facing big pot on river with 3rd or 4th pair.

Are you c-raising that board readless???

Thanks guys!
15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair Quote
11-24-2012 , 02:37 PM
#2
Nyul86's Avatar
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I think this heavily depends on your opponent. I know this is readless but actually you are never totally readless, either you know the opponent is a regular or a random. A random player at $15 doesn't know what is a good card to barrel and also he is passive in general, so I think after checkcalling flop you can easily fold to turn (or river) cbets most of the time, safely assuming that you are behind. Against regulars I think you can either checkcall 3 streets or checkraise flop (since they may perceive this flop as a good one for checkraise bluffing, especially at 25bb).
15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair Quote
11-24-2012 , 04:21 PM
#3
Laroutchez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyul86
I think this heavily depends on your opponent. I know this is readless but actually you are never totally readless, either you know the opponent is a regular or a random. A random player at $15 doesn't know what is a good card to barrel and also he is passive in general, so I think after checkcalling flop you can easily fold to turn (or river) cbets most of the time, safely assuming that you are behind. Against regulars I think you can either checkcall 3 streets or checkraise flop (since they may perceive this flop as a good one for checkraise bluffing, especially at 25bb).
Thanks for your comment! Was random player...

Are you calling turn? / river??



SB: 500 (25 bb)
Hero (BB): 500 (25 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 Q
SB raises to 40, Hero calls 20

Flop: (80) 8 3 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets 40, Hero calls 40

Turn: (160) J (2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets 80, Hero calls 80

River: (320) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, SB bets 100, Hero folds
15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair Quote
11-25-2012 , 06:11 AM
#4
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Tbh I'm not sure about the turn, I think it may be close but I'd fold. As played I think river is an easy fold against a random.
15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair Quote
11-25-2012 , 09:54 AM
#5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyul86
Tbh I'm not sure about the turn, I think it may be close but I'd fold. As played I think river is an easy fold against a random.
If you ck/c that flop then you gotta call again on this turn imo. There are 2 f/ds and loads of straight/gutter combos that barrel this turn.
15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair Quote
11-25-2012 , 11:49 AM
#6
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I can see the draws but I think your assumption that a $15 unknown plays them aggressively is not correct. It's quite possible that calling turn is better for other reasons though, I'm not sure about this spot. Possibly a flop checkraise is an option too but the reason I prefer calling is that I don't expect a random to barrel with air/draws often or to valubet 8x on most turns and rivers.
15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair Quote
11-25-2012 , 01:28 PM
#7
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I think I'd personally c/r this board with 2nd p + very good kicker. It's very wet, hard to give us a credit to have a real monster, there are a ton of draws and he might find weaker pairs good vs our range, and so on...
15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair Quote
11-25-2012 , 02:01 PM
#8
Malah
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Interesting hand , I often feel myself a bit lost in these spots.

@crazyriver, do you suggest stacking off on flop?

To me it seems very opponentdependent what is best on this flop, because not every random will abuse our c/c on flop, knowing our range is weak. So if he is likely to just give up after one barrel we could float one street and safely assume we are beat when he continues barreling.

Vs aggro with wide opening+cb range, and CR dynamic i just like to stack off on this flop.

In this thread there is a similar discussion: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...-flop-1250715/
15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair Quote
11-25-2012 , 02:47 PM
#9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malah
Interesting hand , I often feel myself a bit lost in these spots.

@crazyriver, do you suggest stacking off on flop?

To me it seems very opponentdependent what is best on this flop, because not every random will abuse our c/c on flop, knowing our range is weak. So if he is likely to just give up after one barrel we could float one street and safely assume we are beat when he continues barreling.

Vs aggro with wide opening+cb range, and CR dynamic i just like to stack off on this flop.

In this thread there is a similar discussion: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...-flop-1250715/
Yes, obv I'm getting it in on the flop.

Yea, it's very opponent dependant. The thing is that he has so many good card to barrel that I think we're going to see the barrel close to always. Check/calling 3 streets is also an option. But again it's up to the opponent. We can't call vs someone who's not barreling good boards or is nitty.

The other hand is also pretty different imo. There was an Axx board (which villains sometimes spew because "you can't have an ace in your range") and we had a smallish blocker to fd :P
15$ HT cc or c-raise with 2nd pair Quote
11-25-2012 , 10:11 PM
#10
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hakunamatata998
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grinder
Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 527
maybe i'm nitty but readless I think I would c/c flop c/f turn, though turn decision is probably really close. vs reg I would c/r/get it in on flop
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