this spot is actually pretty close imo.

villain is very straight forward and plays his cards relatively face up
has a tight flatting range oop <20% but 3bets around 30% over about 100 hands.

his style post flop is very loose passive but not complete station (wont have called to streets with 22 but possibly 910o)

from SS it looks like he was a breakeven/ slightly winning player at small stakes but has lost 10k at 100s+

i have never seen this player take a tricky line like this as a bluff or turn some showdown value into a bluff (jx for example) and i dont think he ever gets to the river with a set or straight then decided to do this. i also dont think he can have turned or rivered a set and take this line.


Full Tilt Poker $110 + $5 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t20/t40 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

Hero (BTN/SB): t1805 45.12 BBs
BB: t1195 29.88 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN/SB with 5 8
Hero raises to t80, BB calls t40

Flop: (t160) J A Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t90, BB calls t90

Turn: (t340) 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t225, BB calls t225

River: (t790) 2 (2 players)
BB bets t800 all in

call. too short to consider folding. next hand.

what if u have AK but know the 85hh are burnt cards? humour me with this one

You only need to win 33% to call here. Your 8-hi flush draw is smack dab in the middle on the range of how good flush draws can be. That means if his range is { a flush } you should call.

This doesn't mean anything to me. Care to restate your question?

If villain is loose post flop I think the turnbet is a mistake.

On the river: I am curious why villain can't have a straight or set here. I agree that most would have raised on the turn but I wouldn't remove them completely from his range. It also is possible he does this with 2 pair I think.

Either way, I am usually not folding a flush and if the board is 3 to a straight and unpaired I'd need some killerreads to do so. If I had them I'd probably still call because I have a flush and "my reads might be wrong".


At dies: your above post is wrong imo, villain doesn't have a lot of lower flushdraws in his range and the average flushdraw's height is bigger than 8 anyway.

board: AhQhJc3s2h
Hand Equity Wins Ties
8h5h 21.43% 6 0
*h*h 78.57% 22 0

yeah i did this and even took out hands like j3s and still only got 27%

what u not understand? lets say we have AK but the dealer has been drinking on the job and dropped the deck after dealing the river and the 2 cards on show were 8h5h. appart from that the hand is exactly the same. call or fold?

people spaz, though, or maybe he slowplayed and now hes springing the trap. cant imagine folding here

btw are you jamming river on blanks?

Truer words have never been spoken. I don't have PokerStove and haven't used it in years. Are you advocating a fold, Spamz?

@ air bair. when people are too loose on the flop we can have a TON of FE on the turn plus we have good equity so i think checking back is a big nitty tbh also if he has an ace and we hit we stack him. so seems like implied odds are in our favour but iv never heard anyone say there are implied odds in betting lol

yeah def just seems super non tricky player. i think i prob dont jam brick rivers but i think i have enough FE on the turn for the second barrel to be good

in game obv really hard to fold but he has to have a decent amount of spaz for us to be good i think

Just wondering if my calcs are good but we have to be good here 31% of the time to call? So if we consider spamz calculations and we consider villian to do this on the river with a spazz or 2pair/set only 9% of the time were break even no?

seems a lot for this player tbh esp with this line

He just showed that calling against a range of flushes only is -EV.

I'm definitely not sold on villain's range being that tight. But it's a pure Stove spot. Will play around with it a bit when I get home.
But as usual, folding flushes in a HUSNG feels....yuck

EDIT: Btw you didn't even mention your hand sample against this player.

i think it's a call only if his 30% 3betrange is somewhat spread and his 20% flattingrange can include big hands that flopped set/two pair/straight; also if you never seen him c/c flop and checkraise turn before i lean more towards a call but with the other notes it looks like a fold on paper i guess though i cant remember ever having folded a 2card flush in a hu sng really

i also dont get how you say you can 2barrel profitably but if he calls turn you cant jam river; care to explain what you think his range looks like on every street then? it's not that hard to pinpoint 20% further into a hand

This is interesting

Tamas, whats ur fold/flat/raise 3bet history vs villian so far?
Also, have you double barrelled villian lots? (judging by your description of villian I figure its profitable to double him a bit and thus expect you have)


Also - spamz, do you think this villian would 3 bet top and bottom of this range and flat the mid portion? Just seems wierd that he 3bets a disproportionate part of his oop range vs calling, especially if he plays face up post flop.

ok for those asking for stats. checking my hem and i have 121 hands at this point and i am cbeting 80% and barreling 41% hes folding to cbet 35% and turn barrels 67% and river barrels 100% (1/1) didnt know these numbers at the time fwiw

his 3bet has dropped to 26% at this point so that was a mistake in my OP. folds to 3bet 46%. i have 3bet 14% and folded 56%


spamz i def think 3 barrels could be ok but i often dont against these guys when board texture doesnt change. could def be missing some good bluffing spots

i think preflop his 3beting range will be all strong hands 88+A10+ etc and some good Kx and maybe occational random stuff and some of that sample will be reshoves

so imagine his calling range to be broadways suited connectors and 1 gapers. maybe some non suited connectors too but not super wide i dont think

flop he can call with Qx, Jx, Ax, Kx, 10x, FDs, at a push 55-77 so i dont think we get too many folds on this flop.

turn i think we fold out Kx, Jx, 10x, any PPs possibly Qx but i think he may hold onto this for another bet esp KQ or Q10 if he doesnt 3bet those. i think if he does have 2pair set or straight here he will do something like min raise my barrel.

imo K10 and is possible but sets and 2pairs are unlikely and i think QJ raises the flop.

once he calls the turn i think weak Ax is a big part of his range aswell as some FDs and strong Qx so if we miss the river i think its a question of FE needed and hand combos of Qx V Ax

only firing two barrels in this spot seems stupid fwiw

Meh call,can see stupid stuff like JT turned into a bluff and wtf knows what,and just for the sheer curiosity lol. Also this spot comes soooooooo rare that it doesnt really matter what you do in this spot tbh.

ok so we are never folding in this spot even though i think it is close but folding the best hand would be a huge mistake so leaning towards call always with the flush

so maybe a better discussion would be do you call with

1. AK,AQ, other Ax that paired up
2. AQ,AJ
3. any set
4. K10

fwiw i think this is a somewhat common spot. villain cc cc leads river when the draw hits

if I ever fold a 2card flush 30bb deep I'll shoot myself

Cmon , you can not fold in that spot , he might be shoving straights, sets and aces up all day long there for value . You dont look like a 8 high flush .

ok people i really dont need anyone else to tell me not to fold. i didnt fold in game and i doubt i ever would but wasnt super excited so posted. stil think it could be an interesting spot with other hands that we would play flop turn this way

+1 made me lol

I think with strong enough reads we could make a big fold. I mean, isn't this is one of the things that separate good/great players from the best. Just think of Durrr vs Antonious and how many sick laydowns Durrr hand to make.

That being said i am not even close to a good player so I'm always calling this (which isnt a big leak by any means).