$100 turbo 3bet spot with two overs on the flop - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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$100 turbo 3bet spot with two overs on the flop

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10-29-2011 , 04:49 AM

finknik

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,278

Only about 20 hands into the match, but it's obvious villian is over the top aggro. He's been 3xing about 60% and limping the other 40%. Made some very large 3bets. He'd been pushing me around quite a bit, and I had a very passive image. This was my first 3bet. No idea of his 3bet calling range though I imagine it's wide. Not sure at all about his postflop tendencies.

Blinds: (15/30)
Hero (bb): 1100
Villian (Btn): 1900

Cards: A

Preflop: Villain raises to 90, hero raises to 225, villain calls.

Flop: 2

Hero: ?

900 left, 450 in the pot.

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10-29-2011 , 04:56 AM

Barbra Streisand

banned

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,741

bet/call half pot

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10-30-2011 , 01:21 PM

HokieGreg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,726

3bet bigger pre like t270ish

bet/call flop for sure

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10-30-2011 , 01:56 PM

finknik

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,278

Cool, thanks guys.

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10-30-2011 , 02:30 PM

crazyriver

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,732

We cbet and he calls. What is our plan in this case on different turn cards?

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10-30-2011 , 02:53 PM

Barbra Streisand

banned

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,741

what do you mean with "different" turncards, there's ~45 different turncards...
I jam on like 90% of them.
maybe even 100.

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10-30-2011 , 07:36 PM

crazyriver

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 1,732

I meant ranges of cards of course... Like club, 8-J, pairing flop, etc.
So in which case ur doing anything but jamming?

P.S. Also now look at the other thread we had different opinions about calling or pushing turn. I feel it's pretty similar and there you said villain was going to bet/call but check/folding the next street. Now you say you're pushing any card the next street...

Please explain the meaningful difference or stay to one side.

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10-30-2011 , 08:30 PM

nochtm

adept

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 704

check/call every turn if he flats flop.

also, with this stack size i jam over a 3x pre.

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10-30-2011 , 10:12 PM

Jakester1288

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,394

Quote:

Originally Posted by nochtm

also, with this stack size i jam over a 3x pre.

I think we lose so much value from broadways that flat to flop any pair or draw and go with it at these stacks striaght up jamming at these stacks. I like making it the size hero did here.

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10-30-2011 , 10:23 PM

#10

HokieGreg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by nochtm

check/call every turn if he flats flop.

also, with this stack size i jam over a 3x pre.

explain check/call turn further. why? doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

i could see jamming 30 and lower vs a nitty 3x'ing range, but this is too deep to just be shipping imo.

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10-30-2011 , 10:40 PM

#11

Deepak

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,649

u pretty much gave him perfect stack debt to jam over cbet on flop with your pre sizing.

for sure bet/call flop and do it somewhat happy, u haz 2 overs a gutshot and his range doesnt hit board as well, he probs ships pre 22-JJ, u can induce from lots of KJ, QT type stuff from aggro donks

and on turn im still jamming for somewhat thin value/gay protection, he could def be calling with worse

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10-31-2011 , 06:26 AM

#12

nochtm

adept

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 704

Quote:

Originally Posted by HokieGreg

explain check/call turn further. why? doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

i could see jamming 30 and lower vs a nitty 3x'ing range, but this is too deep to just be shipping imo.

If he's going to jam every turn in case villain flats half pot cbet on the flop, I think it's better to c/c it. The hands that are calling our shove on the turn are shoving to a check anyway and given how weak a check ott looks it will induce a lot of shoves from hands that we crush.

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10-31-2011 , 06:34 AM

#13

Deepak

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,649

he's gonna jam his drawish hands on flop esp since he is aggro (if he is bad and doesnt he would probs call turn jam as well), other hands have somewhat a little showdown value (in his mind) so after calling flop i doubt he jams turn that much

ur giving him added equity to chk back for nothing, and remember that u might have to c/f river if he does chk back

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10-31-2011 , 06:36 AM

#14

ohly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,696

Quote:

Originally Posted by nochtm

If he's going to jam every turn in case villain flats half pot cbet on the flop, I think it's better to c/c it. The hands that are calling our shove on the turn are shoving to a check anyway and given how weak a check ott looks it will induce a lot of shoves from hands that we crush.

but how is this ever true?

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10-31-2011 , 06:44 AM

#15

nochtm

adept

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 704

^This is what has been suggested and i believe c/c turn is better than jamming. I perceive flatting on this flop as a plan to steal the pot later 85% of the time.

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10-31-2011 , 07:01 AM

#16

Deepak

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,649

Quote:

Originally Posted by nochtm

^This is what has been suggested and i believe c/c turn is better than jamming. I perceive flatting on this flop as a plan to steal the pot later 85% of the time.

not true at all
try to explain villains what a plan is

he has two overs that can hit, thats why he called

even vs regs that u might think that (which somehow where dumb enought to call flop and not ship), ur just putting yourself in though spots for nothing rlly
there wont be many chips left on turn... less then a psb. he might jam 96, T7 type stuff if u chk and was ******ed not to ship / fold on flop. but rlly, watch him call with a lot of random overs when u jam, and even an ocasional 96 call etc

and u have decent outs vs pairs

Last edited by Deepak; 10-31-2011 at 07:07 AM.

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10-31-2011 , 08:03 PM

#17

Krumb Snatcha

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,051

I prefer check/calling too, but it is prolly close either way.

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10-31-2011 , 09:33 PM

#18

finknik

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,278

Thanks for all the feedback.

I bet/called a little less than half pot. He had 85o

Looking back I'm not sure why I 3b so small. I usually only do that when I have a plan to 3b a guy who has been folding and I don't want to put more in than I need, but against this guy there was nothing like that going on so I see how larger makes more sense.

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11-01-2011 , 08:03 AM

#19

miniwiz

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,971

i'd raise a bit bigger 240-270, b/c flop
turn play depends on turn card/his raising range/how floaty he seems

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11-04-2011 , 01:10 PM

#20

HokieGreg

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,726

Quote:

Originally Posted by nochtm

^This is what has been suggested and i believe c/c turn is better than jamming. I perceive flatting on this flop as a plan to steal the pot later 85% of the time.

this is such an absurd assumption, lol. there is estimating the average range in common spots, and then there is just making things up to prove your point - this would be the latter, haha.

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11-04-2011 , 01:20 PM

#21

fisheater11

old hand

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,270

i like 350 pre n then u don't post this hand.

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