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05-29-2013 , 08:22 PM
    [hand_history]Poker Stars, $98.12 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #17683361

    SB: 500 (25 bb)
    Hero (BB): 500 (25 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with K A
    SB raises to 40, Hero raises to 90, SB calls 50

    Flop: (180) 5 6 9 (2 players)
    Hero bets 70, SB raises to 410 and is all-in, Hero folds



    Second hand vs villain. Do you cbet this flop in general? What sizing do you prefer if you cbet?
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    05-29-2013 , 10:23 PM
    Looks fine to me. As no 3/bet dynamic has been established you could 3 bet a little larger, but it's minor.
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    05-30-2013 , 12:32 AM
    vs unknown, 3b shove pre
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    05-30-2013 , 01:40 AM
    this hand should rarely be in your 3b non-allin range
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    05-30-2013 , 03:28 AM
    Not sure if in the 100s there is different dynamics, but for me AK is almost always a 3b shove.
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    05-30-2013 , 04:04 AM
    I probably check/decide, decide meaning mostly fold unless he bets small or we have reads. The range play might be bet/decide but that's kind of irrelevant.

    I also think shove > nai 3bet pre when we are readless.
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    05-30-2013 , 04:24 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mela
    I also think shove > nai 3bet pre when we are readless.
    Could someone explain why this is? Aren't we just going to fold out a large part of his range that would call a nai 3bet? Also, are we always shoving this hand or do we nai 3bet as stacks get shallower?
    0 hyper turbo flop spot Quote
    05-30-2013 , 06:18 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 0bl1ky
    Could someone explain why this is? Aren't we just going to fold out a large part of his range that would call a nai 3bet? Also, are we always shoving this hand or do we nai 3bet as stacks get shallower?
    Imo,once villian flat he have good equity against us post flop and we get into difficult situations like here.
    some of his flatting range here will call a shove but not 4b,and once we hit tp villian for the most part will play fit or fold.
    i guess with reads that villian 4b wide nonallin can be fine.
    as stacks get shallower we still 3bs also you prob want to jam bluff range and you want strong hands in that range.
    myb if villian call pretty lite nonallin you can nonallin and bet\call a lot of flops as you need less equity when shallow compared to deep stacks.
    0 hyper turbo flop spot Quote
    05-30-2013 , 06:37 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 0bl1ky
    Could someone explain why this is? Aren't we just going to fold out a large part of his range that would call a nai 3bet? Also, are we always shoving this hand or do we nai 3bet as stacks get shallower?
    you really want to play AK vs smth like T9s oop?
    0 hyper turbo flop spot Quote
    05-30-2013 , 06:42 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by none888
    you really want to play AK vs smth like T9s oop?
    sounds like every poker players nightmare
    0 hyper turbo flop spot Quote
    05-30-2013 , 09:14 AM
    Normally Ax hands are 3bet shoves, unless we're playing a regular who knows that we have 3bet bluffing range
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    05-30-2013 , 04:27 PM
    imo to more:
    - your opp 4bS
    - your opp plays 4b/F and stays out of flatting
    - your opp gives action at A high boards
    - your opp gives up Qhigh Jhigh boards vs barrels
    - your opp give action @ paired, set boards, ...
    the better the 3bnonai AK becomes

    Maybe once in a while gameflow-wise or read dependent you arrive in such a spot but not standard imo.

    Meanwhile you are already getting value from some Ax and KQ hands while 3bS. Not that KQ is always good to flat vs 3bS but that is another point.
    The value you loose form other Ax and Kx hands is imo offset by peeps making your life hard w/o even having to take fancy line post.
    Meanwhile you are also given peeps a chance to stay in with T9 alike hands that would have folded vs 3bS that will make you cry in an attempt to get more value out of them by postflop play compared to the chips you too while 3bS.

    Can totally be wrong as I did not did math to prove above. But alot of peeps think likely like that.
    0 hyper turbo flop spot Quote
    05-31-2013 , 12:45 PM
    Wow is everyone really 3bshoving here?

    Pros:

    Avoid messy preflop spots like this
    Called by worse
    Balanced 3bs range


    Cons
    Loose value from hands that fold and would normally call
    Can outplay on several static boards
    Can't be bluffing



    I have been using similar sizing and am trying to decide if I should just be shoving or not here.

    Please add to the list!
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    05-31-2013 , 01:24 PM
    "outplay"
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    06-05-2013 , 10:34 AM
    I like the 3bs here for AK as well. 3bet NAI gets a tonne of folds too, so you might as well go for the home run and hope that they snap call you with A8-AQ.
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