10.5 HU SNG.- Trouble with end game decissions - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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10.5 HU SNG.- Trouble with end game decissions

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03-05-2011 , 10:14 PM

SoulAndBone

adept

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 798

Hi. I played this guy today and i've been thinking a lot about this hands.

Guy was more on the tight side of the force

Nash tells me this is a push, at 5,7 BB i should be pushing. We're at 2,5 BBs (or 3,5 BBs?) . SNG wizard tells me this is a fold, assuming he's calling 69% of the time, which i think he isn't. Only if he's calling tops 54% of the time it should be a push. Now, what do YOU think.

No Limit Holdem Tournament
2 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com
$10.00+$0.50

Stacks:
Hero (2,650)
BB (350)

Blinds: 50/100

Pre-Flop: (150, 2 players) Hero is SB 10

Hand 2. Same situation with 6-2 off. Easy fold right?

Thanks in advance.

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03-05-2011 , 10:50 PM

Sheerb

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 155

I'm pretty sure the answer is in the meaning of both "charts".

Nash says it's a push because it makes your "5,7BB deep shoving range" unexploitable.
SnG wizard only computes the EV of that single hand from the data he has.

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03-06-2011 , 05:19 AM

jb514

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,837

I think you snap shove 7-2 when the effective stack is 3.5 bb

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03-06-2011 , 05:28 AM

nine9

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 99

This is a shove, he has to call with anything imo.

That includes 96o,86o,T5o,T4o,23o etc

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03-06-2011 , 06:07 AM

moteutsch

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 296

Just NASH it.

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03-06-2011 , 06:33 AM

Honey Badger

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,235

I fold both hands.

I bet hand 3 will be a better spot.

Why double him up with the bottom of a shove range?

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03-06-2011 , 07:22 AM

borderline

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,356

T6 shove, 62o fold iirc.

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03-06-2011 , 08:31 AM

jackoneill

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheerb

Does SnG Wizard even account for the value of the blinds ?

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03-06-2011 , 08:50 AM

Vroommmm

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 284

T6o is a shove
62o is not a shove unless opponent folds waaaay too much

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03-06-2011 , 01:09 PM

#10

jackoneill

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,299

While this may be correct in a vacuum for this particular hand, this is not how NASH is supposed to be used. If you remove some hand from your shoving range, this'll also affect how much value you can get from your value hands, for instance.

You have to shove this hand if you're playing Nash, and this shallow there isn't really any way around it.

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03-06-2011 , 06:51 PM

#11

Honey Badger

veteran

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackoneill

With OP being in such a commanding position do you really feel it's optimal to play an unexploitable endgame strategy? I really don't think that this is optimal. I fold both hands.

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03-06-2011 , 07:32 PM

#12

ohly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,696

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honey Badger

With OP being in such a commanding position do you really feel it's optimal to play an unexploitable endgame strategy? I really don't think that this is optimal. I fold both hands.

deviating from nash at 4bb's is very rarely a good idea. there is a chance that villain folds to much, giving us a HUUUGE equity gain and if he doesn't we still make a plus EV play here. don't overestimate edges at 4bb's, if there is any, take it!

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03-07-2011 , 04:53 AM

#13

jackoneill

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honey Badger

With OP being in such a commanding position do you really feel it's optimal to play an unexploitable endgame strategy? I really don't think that this is optimal. I fold both hands.

"commanding position" ... that's a common misunderstanding in HUSNG's - it really doesn't make any difference at all whether we're the small or the big stack here.

Effective stack size is all that matters.

And as ohly already said, don't underestimate fold equity.

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03-07-2011 , 06:45 AM

#14

Clever_Efreet

grinder

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 505

lol @ folding T6o 3,5bb deep

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03-07-2011 , 06:52 AM

#15

kruszczyk

enthusiast

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 98

since he's tight than shove T6. 26 I'm not so shure, but I've seen guys fold BB with 3 BBs so you might have some slight fold equity. What you don't want is a hero call from 27o

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03-07-2011 , 11:47 AM

#16

JSpazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,694

nash >>>> SNG wizard

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03-07-2011 , 01:25 PM

#17

Kvaughan

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,606

Seems like a clear ATC spot to me. Fish never call wide enough in these spots.

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