This is a great game you seem to have going. I live in Tucson, but it might be worth the trip up to phoenix every couple weeks for this game. I was wondering though, I looked at the wsop freeroll structure, why do you give runner ups a piece of the winners action in the wsop event?

Thanks DJ.

The goal was to make it social. Getting to sweat our winners was part of the fun. I had people come rail my event, and I railed the events of both of the other winners last season. Most of us have gotten to know each other pretty well. I'm very good friends with a number of the players in the game, and taking each others money has actually made it better

I'm going to clear up the language and the exact division of the cash for this year, but it'll be mostly the same -- we send people, they keep 80% of their net win, and a few other people get the leftover cash and some sweats.

I've read your Tucson posts, and I actually think you'd enjoy the PLO and BigO play. I'll have videos up in the next day or so (time permitting), and there's no shortage of action. Plenty of $500+ pots.

Oh I see... it's a rake... but not a rake.... What about those tips to the dealer you mentioned? I suppose those are tips that are not tips too...

How does it feel to be caught in your own B.S.? You didn't answer my question... do you 10-99 your dealers and do you report their tips? I see... the law doesn't apply if we call it a "HOME" game...

• Troll somewhere else.
• We withhold money from our pots to hold a tournament among the people who put the money into the pots. I also have a soda machine in my garage, in which I put my own quarters, and I use it like a piggy bank. Our rake is the same thing. The guys and gals playing the game use it as a piggy bank until the WSOP starts, then we buy ourselves into a private WSOP seat tournament with the money. But since you obviously still don't understand Arizona law, I'll break it down for you.
  • Arizona law requires that for social gambling to be social, three checks are required:
    • ☑ Not conducted as a business - no problem. We're not a business. Nobody sells anything, buys anything, does anything other than plays poker. Hosts don't get compensation for food or drink, and players bring snacks to share.
    • ☑ Nobody gets any benefit outside of the gamble - also no problem. Nobody but the players does anything with the rake; It doesn't earn interest or get used to prop up a wobbly table leg. Nobody uses the game to promote a business or do anything except gather to play poker. All expenses to run the game are out of pocket.
    • ☑ Nobody gets any benefit of proprietorship, like better odds - also not a problem. We all play the same game, and nobody gets 2:1 odds.
  • Three for three. Social under Arizona law. Whew.
• Your final question is moronic on two levels.
  • Should I ever provide more than $600 in compensation to a dealer, I'd gladly give him a 10-99....
  • If I were a business!
    • "Report on form 1099-MISC only when payments are made in the course of your trade or business. Personal payments are not reportable."
    • http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099msc.pdf
  • Since I'm personally $590 short of tipping Saturday's dealer $600, and I'm not a business I'm probably not going to issue him a 1099.
  • This is why we don't provide 1099 forms to our babysitters. We're not businesses and they generally don't get $600 or more in exchange for services.
• Troll somewhere else.

I would like to go back to Crazy Pineapple Hi/Lo for the third game in our rotation. However, I'm probably in the minority there.

Looking forward to our next game

(Maybe MrPokerAz will make an appearance... hopefully he can break away from his busy schedule of flaming The Palimax)

Oh... yes... I see it now, how silly of me... I'm sorry, as i sit here and ready directly from the Arizona Revised Statutes that govern gambling, I can see it clearly now... It says:

(b) No other person receives or becomes entitled to receive any benefit, directly or indirectly, from the gambling activity, including benefits of proprietorship, management or unequal advantage or odds in a series of gambles... except for Palimax and his dealers at his home game.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I see that you have now set a dollar figure on what is acceptable as "benefiting" how nice to be you and the law be damned.

You asked why there wasn't a 1099 - presumably because you don't understand yourself why to give a 1099 to someone. I answered you.

Explain what benefit I get from the game beyond the gamble or GO TROLL SOMEONE ELSE'S THREAD.

Mr poker, I spent time reading the other thread where you posted how your "illegal" poker room is "legal", so therefore I have a pretty good idea of why you are here trolling and I stand by my original post "you sir are an idiot".

So, troll somewhere else please.

That makes sense, and I actually like the idea of getting a piece of the action. Even if you don't win the tourney yourself, still gives you part of the wsop experience

I'm definitely interested in playing, cash flow is a slight issue right now, so it'll probably have to put on hold for a month or so, but I'll pm you when I'm ready, as it seems this thread is being hijacked and I might get lost in the skirmish

____________

MrPokerAZ, it seems to me that you have a problem with Palimax's game and the way he runs it. I don't know much about it myself, but nothing I've read sounds fishy. Personally, I've tipped friends at home games for taking the burden off the other players for dealing all night, they are by no means professional dealers or employees of any kind. It's just a nice gesture.

You're allowed to take issue with his game if you like, this is America after all and you have that freedom. But you're constant comments and responses could be teetering on harassment, and frankly seems very childish. You've taken issue, and spoken your peace. Let it go.

This is the last legal-related post I'm going to make in this thread. Please go to the Arizona Strip-Mall poker legality thread if you want to discuss the subtleties and nuances of social gambling in Arizona.

Scroll up and show me where, please?

But, despite you being wrong again, and despite the fact you won't answer a single question (always attack, never defend!), I'll gladly answer your question, and even provide commentary for those reading this thread and wondering why you're trolling my home-game announcement. Perhaps it will cause some of them to go to the Arizona Strip-Mall poker legality thread and read up there.

IANAL, TINLA

• In the State of Arizona, there is a law that says you can gamble socially. That social clause includes the three items I list above (not a business, no 3rd party benefit, no benefit of proprietorship [e.g. better odds]).
• There is a regulatory agency, the Arizona Department of Gaming, that has published policy statements that narrowly define benefit. A long description of why they can do this (despite their charter being Tribal Gaming) can be found HERE (warning: chock full of legal).
• The ADOG published a pretty concise 2-page PDF on this social exemption, which can be found HERE.
• While that document doesn't mention tipping, when a club in Gilbert (a Phoenix suburb) got run out of town, the City Attorney there cited dealing for tips as benefit, thus violating the "social" exception.
• Because MrPokerAZ runs a business in a NE Phoenix suburb - a "social club" that deals poker, he's been asked questions repeatedly in the Legal forum about why he believes his business is legal, despite numerous others having been closed and a high-profile Arizona poker figure being on trial now for his poker room.
• MrPokerAZ will not defend his business, he'll only attack posters.
• One of those questions has been around paying his "volunteer" dealers; if they get 1099 forms, if all businesses can just make their employees "volunteers" and not pay them, etc. He won't explain his position on it -- trade secrets! -- so he just attacks those of us who ask.

...which brings me back to if I allow the people who have dealt in my game to accept tips:

Yes.

As such, it is certainly possible that under a strict interpretation of Arizona law (such as the City Attorney of Gilbert believes), this could be construed as benefit of gambling under ARS 13-3304, and the dealer could be guilty of a misdemeanor. It does not appear that the ADOG holds this belief; but as has been mentioned before there are currently cases in court in Arizona that should help define benefit in more detail going forward.

My position on this has always been clear and up-front, and the topic has been well discussed among my friends and those who've volunteered to deal poker at my games.

If you'd like to further discuss the subtle differences between throwing a buck at the guy who went busto and offered to deal vs. running a business where you charge membership fees and use them to pay your electric bill and rent, then PLEASE GO TO THE LEGAL FORUM AND JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE -- AND GET THE HECK OUT OF THIS THREAD.

Thanks for the bumps though. I like the advertising.

I removed some of MrPokerAZ's trollish posts, but left a few in place just because Palimax refuted them so well. I don't expect him to return, and I apologize to Pali for letting this go so long. I don't get into the HGL threads that often unless there is a complaint.

No worries, and.

This:

OK, where were we?

Ah yes...

Game goes Saturday, July 23rd, in Gilbert (no RFID system).

[5 players already confirmed, plenty more expected.]

oh,.... we're playing Saturday. Glad I've started reading these.

- First Lady, Last to Know Club

No worries Schmendr1ch, my posts were never intended to be trollish but I'm glad you're here to censor things. I will waste no more time with my questions, I have received the response I expected. I would like to apologize to the other participants in this forum if they found my questions or comments offensive in any way. Enjoy your home games and may the flops be with you.

What time are you heading over there, Pali? LMK.

"After dinner."

Mmmmmm.... dinner

Yeah, I was still considering making that.

Game will go Saturday, July 30th in Gilbert (no RFID system).

We might be short-handed, could use a few this time -- after having 12 and 13 players a few weeks ago.

Bastard

Game (likely) goes tonight, Saturday, August 6th, in Gilbert (no RFID system).

We're still 1-2 players short, but for purposes of this announcement, we're playing, since anyone attending as a result of it would push us over.

First week in a while this game hasn't gone. Is everyone just busy or do we lack a host? I've got the poker bug again

I think, as it turned out, I should have hosted. We'd have had six minimum without M&A - who opted for the night off.

We're clearly on for the 20th and/or 26th, however.

Bits, we secretly moved the game to my place....don't tell Pali...we need to catch up on hours