This is the last legal-related post I'm going to make in this thread. Please go to the
Arizona Strip-Mall poker legality thread if you want to discuss the subtleties and nuances of social gambling in Arizona.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPokerAZ
What I asked was a simple yes or no question. Do the dealers in your little home games take tips?
Scroll up and show me where, please?
But, despite you being wrong again, and despite the fact you won't answer a single question (
always attack, never defend!), I'll gladly answer your question, and even provide commentary for those reading this thread and wondering why you're trolling my home-game announcement. Perhaps it will cause some of them to go to the
Arizona Strip-Mall poker legality thread and read up there.
IANAL, TINLA
- In the State of Arizona, there is a law that says you can gamble socially. That social clause includes the three items I list above (not a business, no 3rd party benefit, no benefit of proprietorship [e.g. better odds]).
- There is a regulatory agency, the Arizona Department of Gaming, that has published policy statements that narrowly define benefit. A long description of why they can do this (despite their charter being Tribal Gaming) can be found HERE (warning: chock full of legal).
- The ADOG published a pretty concise 2-page PDF on this social exemption, which can be found HERE.
- While that document doesn't mention tipping, when a club in Gilbert (a Phoenix suburb) got run out of town, the City Attorney there cited dealing for tips as benefit, thus violating the "social" exception.
- Because MrPokerAZ runs a business in a NE Phoenix suburb - a "social club" that deals poker, he's been asked questions repeatedly in the Legal forum about why he believes his business is legal, despite numerous others having been closed and a high-profile Arizona poker figure being on trial now for his poker room.
- MrPokerAZ will not defend his business, he'll only attack posters.
- One of those questions has been around paying his "volunteer" dealers; if they get 1099 forms, if all businesses can just make their employees "volunteers" and not pay them, etc. He won't explain his position on it -- trade secrets! -- so he just attacks those of us who ask.
...which brings me back to if I allow the people who have dealt in my game to accept tips:
Yes.
As such, it is certainly possible that under a strict interpretation of Arizona law (such as the City Attorney of Gilbert believes), this could be construed as benefit of gambling under ARS 13-3304, and the dealer could be guilty of a misdemeanor. It does not
appear that the ADOG holds this belief; but as has been mentioned before there are currently cases in court in Arizona that should help define benefit in more detail going forward.
My position on this has
always been clear and up-front, and the topic has been well discussed among my friends and those who've volunteered to deal poker at my games.
If you'd like to further discuss the subtle differences between throwing a buck at the guy who went busto and offered to deal vs. running a business where you charge membership fees and use them to pay your electric bill and rent, then
PLEASE GO TO THE LEGAL FORUM AND JOIN THE DISCUSSION THERE -- AND GET THE HECK OUT OF THIS THREAD.
Thanks for the bumps though. I like the advertising.