I know there are numerous threads on the regs sit out culture, the rules behind it etc etc. Im not normally part of it as I consider myself in the grey world between regular and recreational.

I don't have the history in the on line game many of the users of this forum have and my maths and game strategy are only fair to middling.

So I wonder if someone can help me with the maths behind why regs sit out the way they do. Clearly if a fish sits down at say a 6 max table it immediately gets swarmed and I suppose i understand that each of the regs is trying to get a percentage of the fish and the games where its regs against regs will wash through in the long run as evens.

But is that really true ….surely even all the regs aren't even and therefore does the sitting out make any sense at all…..whilst a fish is sat down at a 6 max how many hands on average does each reg get against that fish and how many do they have to play against other regs.

Has anyone down some kind of maths on all this and does it really logically and factually stack up? If not why don't the regs just all play each other?

Hey there Nstevens! Glad to see you figured out that you're not a fish, lol. You're honestly very talented... been a few months since I played with you, and I assume you have only improved since then.

To answer your question... the first problem is the rake. If there are 5 regs of equal ability, all of them are going to lose in the long run because Stars is taking rake out of each pot.

But more importantly, you have to realize that pro mid-high players are excellent at evaluating their own skill relative to their opponents. Being honest with yourself is mandatory for a pro poker player in the modern LHE era. So here's what happens:

Player 5 realizes he is the worst of the 5 regs at the table, so he is going to sit out... rather than lose money to the better regs, he will drop down in stakes and find a game where he is strong enough relative to his opponents to make money.

Now that Player 5 is gone, Player 4 realizes he is now the worst and sits out.

Player 3 is now the worst player at the tables, so he sits out too.

Player 2 knows Player 1 is a better player, so he sits out.

But Player 1.... he saw all of this coming. He knows he is the best and that none of the other regs want to play him. So... none of the above ever happens! Player 1 saw all of this coming, and therefore he sits out as soon as the fish leaves. In fact, almost all regs realize this is going to happen... so that is why they all sit out as soon as the fish sits out.

Also consider that a soft 10/20 game might be more profitable for a reg than a tough 30/60 game.

There are a few pros who will play almost anyone. These pros either know they are the best at the table, are delusional, or just degens. Even the ones who are genuinely capable of beating these tough games are often only doing this for practice, egos reasons, or simply to intimidate the competition. Or occasionally, they are both world class and a degen... it happebs!

Also consider that 100/200+ does not run very much... so if you get clobbered in a tough game, it is going to be a very long time before you can earn that money back due to the lack of games.

Almost all of us have tried playing in very tough games at some point in our careers... in my case, it has mostly gone horribly. Not only is it extremely difficult, but it is also exhausting and nerve-racking. We only have so much time and energy we can devote to poker and this is our job... it just doesn't make much sense from a time/financial perspective to play in super tough games.

Don't call it "the Maths"

Its called math.

I hope that was very slightly helpful and not perceived as condescending!

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

Thanks - that is incredibly helpful and now all the pieces fall into place. I really appreciate the time taken to post. I'm not sure I'm talented but the praise will almost certainly inflate my ego sufficiently to donate some more of my pension funds to the regs/pros out there who I enjoy playing with and admire for their level of skill

Thanks Shawn...however Im from good old "Blighty" and i have to agree with the below:

Is “math” or “maths” the correct word to use as the shortened or colloquial form of the word mathematics? The answer is that it depends on where you are.
To North American speakers of English, the word to use is “math”, as in “I majored in math”, and “maths” would sound wrong. Speakers of British English, however, would always say “maths”, as in “I took a degree in maths”. They would never say “math”.
There are logical arguments for both spellings. The word “mathematics” can be considered as a singular and as a plural noun. Both the Oxford and the Merriam-Webster dictionaries say the word is plural – hence the s on the end – but also that it is usually used as if it was a singular noun. So, most people would say “mathematics is my best subject” and not “mathematics are my best subject”. The shortened form “maths”, then, makes sense because the word is still a plural noun and so should still have the “s” on the end. On the other hand, it could be argued, “math” makes sense because it seems wrong to remove the letters “ematic” from the middle of the word and leave the final “s”.
There are a number of other plural nouns that are used as if they were singular – for example economics, ethics, politics, gymnastics, measles and dominoes. These words, however, are not habitually shortened, making math/maths rather an unusual word.
It’s sometimes surprising how much argument and disagreement small differences such as that single letter can make. Readers in the UK, for example, sometimes get very upset if someone writes “math” rather than “maths”. No doubt the reverse is true in the US. In practice, it’s simply worth being aware of the geographical differences so that you can use the correct form of the word in your writing.

+1 - I'm woefully unqualified to talk about the rest of the thread so won't!!

US and UK - two nations divided by a common language

Kahn

get in game

Play 1 round

sit out

first player to leave is best or worst

if no one leaves you are not fish

locate fish

easy game...