Bellagio 100/200

BB is a young white dude wearing the American Eagle hoodie who plays well. He value bet AKo high in a spot that was very obvious too(board was something like 9532x), but plays excellent postflop from the few orbits I've seen even with a loose range. Neither Justin A nor Nina can identify him as a 2p2er, though I was told he's from the East Coast.

CO is the spew monkey at the table. I have no idea how people with any understanding of seat selection didn't take the seat to his left, allowing me to have the Jesus seat. His donk here has been pretty weak in the past and he has even donk/folded against me HU before. He likes to jam the flop with a variety of draws though slows down if shown aggression on the big streets, though that doesn't stop him from stupid c/r bluffs on the big streets with showdown value.

Preflop: CO raises, Hero 3-bets 77 OTB, BB calls.

Flop: T96
BB checks, CO bets, Hero...

I definitely would call, can't fold and raising seems very dangerous and I see very little upside. I'm sure I can name the BB if we are all in one place anytime soon.

-DeathDonkey

Raise for sure. Getting heads up with him would be great.

i think this is an interesting spot. I'd raise and try and clear out the BB. Add in the fact that you said he's donk/folded the flop and I think it's a good spot. I like to try and exploit weird tendencies in my opponents like this until they correct.

put me in raise camp

I also raise here every time against a moron, just praying for the other guy behind not to have a piece. He might even fold a 9 a decent part of the time.

i'm in the raise boat also, i raise and obviously re-evaluate depending on what happened. Since we seem in agreement, what was hero's action and then what was the turn card?

i am really suprised DD said call.

even if we are behind to the donk, we can use our expert skill to outplay him on the turn/river, saving, and gaining bets in the right spots.

to be honest...raise seems standard to me.

This is also a pretty good flop for our hand HU

Yes/No?

This a pretty tough board to play 3-way without control of the pot.

Yes/No?

I'm raising almost 100% of my 3-betting range here on this flop with someone acting behind me who has displayed interest in being caught in the middle.


Change your hand to AK and I would think you'd be raising here so I think you almost have to with 77 because it is a similar situation in that your hand CAN very well improve or be best ATM, but were it not to the option to check behind on either street would be one you'd like to have.

I think getting HU w/the donk-tard has plenty of merit here. I'd say must-raise if the board were two-tone. BTW, sounds like Jeff to me.

I dont get why it should be such a big merit to get HU with the donkey with that hand in that spot.
How could Hero outplay villain on turn or river?
I think nobody believes he could fold a better hand?
Additionally Heros hand is imho too weak to play a value (raise bet bet) line unimproved
So what are the options?

Raise Flop, Bet turn cb river? imho dangerous with the given read that villain likes to make C/R turn with SD value. So he is capable to C/R turn with A8 and gets max value?
Additionally villain 3 bets flop and Hero has no clue where he stands with the given read. As Hero does not like to fold unless cards that complets draws come villain could get max value with TP or even 2nd pair.

So taking a freecard on the turn is the only viable option. In this case nobody knows who gains from that FC?

I dont see a superior line to outplay villain postflop here with aggression. As I want to see at least the river (better an SD) I dont like to blow up pots with marginal hands even if I could kick out a 3rd player.
In generel the EQ from the 3rd player is not divided symmetrically and as we dont have the best hand in average the donkey profits more than hero.
And as I don't see a superior line to ouplay him postflop I try to bring me EQ cheaply to river and simply call.

To answer your question I will make use of bulletpoints.

- We have outs
- Our hand is vulnerable multi-way
- There is a fish who led into us
- We have showdown value

Now add all of this up and even if we lose the hand to A9o, it's still a victory. If he calls our raise, check/calls the turn, and we check behind the river after not improving and lose, it's still better than calling the flop, having the other player likely peel with his full range, and having every turncard be a scarecard which makes us fold. Isolating with showdown value is a very important aspect of higher stakes LHE and this seems like a standard spot where doing so is +EV.

Heyho thanks for your answer. I am of course familar with your given concepts And even if raising is +EV which I think too, it is imho in that hand with the given read not the line which ist most +EV.

Hero gave the read, that villain is capable to play strange C/R-turn moves with mediocre hands. In that spot this kind of play is the perfect counterline against light protection-raises to get a cheap SD with bet turn cb river.
Additionally Hero has no clue where he stands after a 3 bet on the flop.

I still prefer call Flop with SD-intention HU or raise turn/fold to 3 bet (In general you are almost always way behind in live games after the turn 3 bet) on favourable Turncards for free SD if the 2nd Player calls the Flop.

I thought "outs" was a secret concept.


To respond to your last point about being showdown bound, I think it's better to push the BB out with the flop raise so that we can be this. We're not HU if we just call the flop because the BB is going to peel with his entire range, but will fold a good bit of it if we play fast(not that our hand is one for slowplay). I never underestimate the value of using position to push out players in multiway pots if our hand has SD value.

hehe ok

I can comprehend your arguments and I would raise vs unknown too.
But C/R Turn would be the perfect counterline against raise flop bet turn cb river.
If Hero knows that Villain ist capable to play that line with mediocre hands (so the danger of playing against the best counterline is high) I would avoid to get in that spot.
And since there are some other benefits (avoiding Flop 3 bet, Free SD raise turn Turn viable) I like to call that Flop.