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at my wits end on long downswing at my wits end on long downswing

11-07-2018 , 11:50 PM
oh, whoops....yeah
you can't tag hands when playing zoom so I try to just fish some out by pot size, but there are a lot of smaller pots that could be more interesting
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-08-2018 , 01:01 AM
In an attempt to figure out where I'm folding so much, I'm going through my DB to look at hands where I XC flop and turn and XF river. I'm tagging for review any hands that look like they might be explofolds, running sims, and seeing the results.

Here's two I've found so far:


PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Small Blind (SB): $632.07
Hero (BB): $380.11
UTG (UTG): $222.00
UTGplus1 (MP): $212.80
UTGplus2 (CO): $315.25
Dealer (BTN): $205.00

Small Blind posts SB $1.00, Hero posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has 9 A

fold, fold, UTGplus2 raises to $6.00, fold, fold, Hero calls $4.00

Flop: ($13.00, 2 players) 9 5 2
Hero checks, UTGplus2 bets $8.50, Hero calls $8.50

Turn: ($30.00, 2 players) J
Hero checks, UTGplus2 bets $19.00, Hero calls $19.00

River: ($68.00, 2 players) 4
Hero checks, UTGplus2 bets $48.00, fold


this seems like a pretty indefensibly weak fold, not sure what's going through my mind there



PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Big Blind (BB): $200.00
UTG (UTG): $399.62
UTGplus1 (MP): $179.45
UTGplus2 (CO): $300.25
Hero (BTN): $409.75
Small Blind (SB): $215.45

Small Blind posts SB $1.00, Big Blind posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has A Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $6.00, Small Blind raises to $22.00, fold, Hero calls $16.00

Flop: ($46.00, 2 players) 3 4 A
Small Blind bets $27.00, Hero calls $27.00

Turn: ($100.00, 2 players) 9
Small Blind bets $50.00, Hero calls $50.00

River: ($200.00, 2 players) T
Small Blind bets $116.45 and is all-in, fold


this spot just sucks, I mean we r supposed to call, but after calling a big bet on this dry flop and a turn call, I think folding river seems pretty dang reasonable?
V certainly never vbets worse, thats for sure, so we have a pure bluffcatcher
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-08-2018 , 03:59 AM
Interesting, I was thinking about those two hands the other way around. The first one seemed like a good fold to me. The second one seemed like a mandatory call.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-08-2018 , 07:35 AM
I think I have studied that 952r flop. I came to the conclusion A9 would go in my flop XR range, even without the backdoor.
Vs pool I play against. Even against a 66% but I am not 100% sure if that was the flop.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-08-2018 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by outfit
I think I have studied that 952r flop. I came to the conclusion A9 would go in my flop XR range, even without the backdoor.
Vs pool I play against. Even against a 66% but I am not 100% sure if that was the flop.
yeah, that makes a lot of sense. thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGodson
Interesting, I was thinking about those two hands the other way around. The first one seemed like a good fold to me. The second one seemed like a mandatory call.
In H1 we're not gonna have enough Jx (or better) to be able to fold all our 9x on river, and A9 is a really good calling combo, obv cuz of kicker, but also cuz it blocks AJ, A3s.

H2 Agreed it does look like kinda standard calldown. Problem is just not sure how often ppl r gonna show up with bluffs here with the 60% flop size.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-09-2018 , 05:36 PM
Tried shotting 500z again the other night, fail obv. Yearly results gonna be quite depressed by dismal 500 graph:




PokerStars - $5 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

Small Blind (SB): $1,294.11
Big Blind (BB): $1,043.25
UTG (UTG): $543.13
UTGplus1 (MP): $535.00
Hero (CO): $668.64
Dealer (BTN): $678.17

Small Blind posts SB $2.50, Big Blind posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $7.50) Hero has A Q

fold, UTGplus1 raises to $15.00, Hero raises to $50.00, fold, fold, fold, UTGplus1 raises to $125.00, Hero calls $75.00

Flop: ($257.50, 2 players) 6 3 Q
UTGplus1 bets $66.00, Hero calls $66.00

Turn: ($389.50, 2 players) J
UTGplus1 checks, Hero bets $389.50, UTGplus1 calls $344.00 and is all-in

River: ($1,077.50, 2 players) T

UTGplus1 shows Q Q (Three of a Kind, Queens)
(Pre 70%, Flop 96%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows A Q (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 30%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)
UTGplus1 wins $1,073.50



Frustration stationed a couple big pots in 200z during same session that I think I would normally fold.


PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

Big Blind (BB): $330.96
UTG (UTG): $208.00
UTGplus1 (MP): $196.00
UTGplus2 (CO): $204.00
Hero (BTN): $329.15
Small Blind (SB): $297.51

Small Blind posts SB $1.00, Big Blind posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $6.00, Small Blind raises to $18.00, fold, Hero raises to $48.00, Small Blind calls $30.00

Flop: ($98.00, 2 players) 6 4 K
Small Blind checks, Hero bets $28.00, Small Blind calls $28.00

Turn: ($154.00, 2 players) K
Small Blind checks, Hero bets $51.00, Small Blind raises to $221.51 and is all-in, Hero calls $170.51

River: ($597.02, 2 players) 7

Hero shows Q Q (Two Pair, Kings and Queens)
(Pre 54%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
Small Blind shows A K (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 46%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
Small Blind wins $593.02



PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players


UTGplus1 (MP): $212.50
UTGplus2 (CO): $367.00
Dealer (BTN): $258.05
Hero (SB): $199.00
Big Blind (BB): $592.97
UTG (UTG): $162.12

Hero posts SB $1.00, Big Blind posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has K J

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $6.00, Big Blind raises to $18.00, Hero calls $12.00

Flop: ($36.00, 2 players) T 2 9
Hero checks, Big Blind checks

Turn: ($36.00, 2 players) T
Hero bets $20.00, Big Blind calls $20.00

River: ($76.00, 2 players) J
Hero checks, Big Blind bets $554.97 and is all-in, Hero calls $161.00 and is all-in

Big Blind shows A K (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 75%, Flop 73%, Turn 89%)
Hero mucks K J (Two Pair, Jacks and Tens)
(Pre 25%, Flop 27%, Turn 11%)
Big Blind wins $394.00
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-09-2018 , 05:58 PM
what does your 200z results look like
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-09-2018 , 06:36 PM
From what people say, 4-bet ranges are very tight in zone, wouldn't mind folding AQo specially vs a non-reg, that often 4-bet tighter. As played x back AQ, thin value/equity denial is cool, but board is already so strong for you that it's hard to get called by worse.

Fold KJ, man wtf. This is only a call if youre in an sn site and know very well the guy you're playing, even with the Ks it's a fold
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-10-2018 , 01:25 AM
I'm winning like 5.4bbs EV on 200z, over 95k hands.

I fold the AQ to 4b at 200z but not at 500z, though it does feel close.
And ok
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-10-2018 , 02:47 AM
sweet turn jam with the aq.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-20-2018 , 04:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by barney big nuts
sweet turn jam with the aq.
Turn is a mix.


Haven't been too good about updating.
A couple things happened since I last posted here.
I accidentally blocked someone's driveway when parking in Oakland and got $700 in fines. Then the tow company damaged my muffler. I got really mad about all this and it affected my game for several days, during which another failed shot at 500z sent my BR down by about 4k.

Then I switched from Ignition back to Global Poker for a change of scenery and won it all back and more, playing oddly relaxed and focused. I also studied about 2 hours/day for the last 4 days, which is unusual consistency for me.
Feelin good about my game. Fixing some things and realizing just how bad some of the regs I play with are.


Played a $1k at Lucky Chances and busted 3 off the bubble AK<AKs. That was ****ing annoying. First place paid $110k.

The hand immediately before my bustout, MP (7? handed) young Asian guy opens to 10k at 4kBB, we defend A5dd.

Js5h3c we X/C 10k.
2x (can't remember if f draw) V quickly checks back.
7x we check, V thinks for <minute, bets 20k. Hero?


V, is a competent reg, seems thoughtful, opens a decent amount so far, but not super wide. Previously, he showed down QT after XB flop BTN-BB on T42r (which I found quite odd), also XB all streets IP with AK on Q94x9x4x.
He has also cbet flops before (without showdown).
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-20-2018 , 05:06 AM
Think the river in the HH has been missing posted?
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-20-2018 , 05:16 AM
it was a seven. no flush
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-20-2018 , 06:09 AM
As in V's action otr. It trails off after 'V thinks for'.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-20-2018 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson
7x we check, V thinks for <minute, bets 20k.
.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-20-2018 , 11:28 PM
Just shotted 400nl again off a 40 BI roll and lost 5 BIs. Must be down like 25-30 BIs at midstakes this year. Guess my taxes will be low at least.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-21-2018 , 01:23 AM
Sorry to hear that man.

As for the hand in the tournament I feel like check/raising this river for some reason. I'd rather fold here than call though.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-21-2018 , 02:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson
Tried shotting 500z again the other night, fail obv. Yearly results gonna be quite depressed by dismal 500 graph:




PokerStars - $5 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

Small Blind (SB): $1,294.11
Big Blind (BB): $1,043.25
UTG (UTG): $543.13
UTGplus1 (MP): $535.00
Hero (CO): $668.64
Dealer (BTN): $678.17

Small Blind posts SB $2.50, Big Blind posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $7.50) Hero has A Q

fold, UTGplus1 raises to $15.00, Hero raises to $50.00, fold, fold, fold, UTGplus1 raises to $125.00, Hero calls $75.00

Flop: ($257.50, 2 players) 6 3 Q
UTGplus1 bets $66.00, Hero calls $66.00

Turn: ($389.50, 2 players) J
UTGplus1 checks, Hero bets $389.50, UTGplus1 calls $344.00 and is all-in

River: ($1,077.50, 2 players) T

UTGplus1 shows Q Q (Three of a Kind, Queens)
(Pre 70%, Flop 96%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows A Q (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 30%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)
UTGplus1 wins $1,073.50



Frustration stationed a couple big pots in 200z during same session that I think I would normally fold.


PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players

Big Blind (BB): $330.96
UTG (UTG): $208.00
UTGplus1 (MP): $196.00
UTGplus2 (CO): $204.00
Hero (BTN): $329.15
Small Blind (SB): $297.51

Small Blind posts SB $1.00, Big Blind posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has Q Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $6.00, Small Blind raises to $18.00, fold, Hero raises to $48.00, Small Blind calls $30.00

Flop: ($98.00, 2 players) 6 4 K
Small Blind checks, Hero bets $28.00, Small Blind calls $28.00

Turn: ($154.00, 2 players) K
Small Blind checks, Hero bets $51.00, Small Blind raises to $221.51 and is all-in, Hero calls $170.51

River: ($597.02, 2 players) 7

Hero shows Q Q (Two Pair, Kings and Queens)
(Pre 54%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)
Small Blind shows A K (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 46%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)
Small Blind wins $593.02



PokerStars - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players


UTGplus1 (MP): $212.50
UTGplus2 (CO): $367.00
Dealer (BTN): $258.05
Hero (SB): $199.00
Big Blind (BB): $592.97
UTG (UTG): $162.12

Hero posts SB $1.00, Big Blind posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has K J

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $6.00, Big Blind raises to $18.00, Hero calls $12.00

Flop: ($36.00, 2 players) T 2 9
Hero checks, Big Blind checks

Turn: ($36.00, 2 players) T
Hero bets $20.00, Big Blind calls $20.00

River: ($76.00, 2 players) J
Hero checks, Big Blind bets $554.97 and is all-in, Hero calls $161.00 and is all-in

Big Blind shows A K (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 75%, Flop 73%, Turn 89%)
Hero mucks K J (Two Pair, Jacks and Tens)
(Pre 25%, Flop 27%, Turn 11%)
Big Blind wins $394.00
THe key to poker is simple its volume. You need to put in 200 to 300k hands a month in. If you do that for a year its get to the point you don't need a hud anymore. You will just know what works, what to do and what not to do over time. Its a lot of trial and error. But if you go off stats and keep trying to change how you play your just going to go in circles. You gotta develop your own style of play that works for you. What works use and what doesn't get it out of your game. I have a friend that uses a very loose passive style for poker and he is a crusher. And i have a more lag style. If we both tried to replicate each other styles I have no doubt in my mind we would both lose for years trying to master a whole different style of play then the style we took years to perfect. Don't be hard on yourself during downswing. Just don't care about and focus on your strategy that you think will make the most money. if you think your play +ev thats all that matters and avoiding -ev situations.

As for these hands the QQ i don't like your reraise. THe problem is he raised from the sb. Its not like this guys on the btn. So in sb vs yoru ep raise his range should be very strong. And we don't want to 4b and make him fold out his weaker range. We are in position with QQ thats still a pretty good situation as we can re evaluate much better in position.

THe KJ hand just fold to 3b. Your out of position. What are you doing here? This is not good. You can 4b as bluff but calling with KJ out of position? This is -ev here. Dont' do this. KJs fine. KJo just muck it. You don't have to call every 3b especially out of position. Just fold. And yoru river call is terrible. he over bet shoves the river. you ahve to have better 1 pair here to call a over bet shove in a 3b pot. Me perosnally i would of bet that river for thin value about 25 to 30 hoping like an AK will call here and if shoves we simple fold after we bet. Its a block bet but we can still get some value against A high hand. And thats what he had was AK but that time he back doored a flush. You can't call that over bet shove with one pair. Your just lighting money on fire. These are easy folds. Your getting married to hands in marginal situations where your opponents are showing a ton of aggression in spots where they aren't gonna bluff very often based on how the hands played out.

I haven't played holdem for a while I moved on to plo but i am doing a BR challenge bet right now for holdem. And I just got back into it this month. I am very rusty right now and definitely making a lot more mistakes then I thought I would of made going from plo back to holdem. But KJ spot is a very easy fold. This is not hard to realize your crushed when he over bet jams river. If you don't know that you definitely need a lot more volume and you should move down in limits or your going to light money on fire. I am not trying to be hard on you but you sound like you want to be poker player so this is for your own good. Move down and get more volume then move back up when the opponent over bet shoves that river like that you don't even have to think about it you can snap fold that KJ top pair. But you should also know to be betting their for value and folding to a shove. Thats a very standard value bet spot when you bink the J. Your at the top of your range you need to bet. But when he shoves your relative range is now weak and it a easy fold. You should be good enough to fold this spot and if you aren't put in more volume and over time you will recognize these are spots your beat. Now watch me get crushed in my BR challenge after i said all this like I know it all haha. People always get mad when they ask my advice and i am very blunt with what needs to be done and they take it personal. you gotta keep good spirits and enjoy playing poker and enjoy the criticism. Its only going to make you better. Just by looking at the lines you took in both hands your like forcing the issue. I think if you relax and have fun your going to make better decisions and not be so attached to a hand.Gl with your grind. I see you have passion for this so I gave you well thought out response. I don't see that passion from to many grinders.

Last edited by iburydoscocaroaches; 11-21-2018 at 03:24 AM.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-21-2018 , 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iburydoscocaroaches
THe key to poker is simple its volume. You need to put in 200 to 300k hands a month in. If you do that for a year its get to the point you don't need a hud anymore. You will just know what works, what to do and what not to do over time. Its a lot of trial and error. But if you go off stats and keep trying to change how you play your just going to go in circles. You gotta develop your own style of play that works for you. What works use and what doesn't get it out of your game. I have a friend that uses a very loose passive style for poker and he is a crusher. And i have a more lag style. If we both tried to replicate each other styles I have no doubt in my mind we would both lose for years trying to master a whole different style of play then the style we took years to perfect. Don't be hard on yourself during downswing. Just don't care about and focus on your strategy that you think will make the most money. if you think your play +ev thats all that matters and avoiding -ev situations.
Getting in 80-100k hands a month is a stretch these days. The days are gone of 24 tabling full ring on stars/full tilt and pounding out massive volume in pretty decent games. Even if you can effectively multisite and get a bunch of tables going you aren't gonna come near the volume you are talking about. Not using a hud when it's available is also not good advice. Why do you think he should avoid using an additional tool that provides more info? If you felt you played worse with a hud than you weren't analyzing the information properly. Better to take the time to learn how to interpret the stats than to act like they don't exist.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-21-2018 , 03:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iburydoscocaroaches
As for these hands the QQ i don't like your reraise. THe problem is he raised from the sb. Its not like this guys on the btn. So in sb vs yoru ep raise his range should be very strong. And we don't want to 4b and make him fold out his weaker range. We are in position with QQ thats still a pretty good situation as we can re evaluate much better in position.

THe KJ hand just fold to 3b. Your out of position. What are you doing here? This is not good. You can 4b as bluff but calling with KJ out of position? This is -ev here. Dont' do this. KJs fine. KJo just muck it. You don't have to call every 3b especially out of position. Just fold. And yoru river call is terrible. he over bet shoves the river. you ahve to have better 1 pair here to call a over bet shove in a 3b pot. Me perosnally i would of bet that river for thin value about 25 to 30 hoping like an AK will call here and if shoves we simple fold after we bet. Its a block bet but we can still get some value against A high hand. And thats what he had was AK but that time he back doored a flush. You can't call that over bet shove with one pair. Your just lighting money on fire. These are easy folds. Your getting married to hands in marginal situations where your opponents are showing a ton of aggression in spots where they aren't gonna bluff very often based on how the hands played out.
QQ hand is btn vs sb. Super standard 4b. KJ hand is sb vs bb. Super standard call pf. Are you trolling?
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-21-2018 , 04:06 AM
You may have a point about the KJo. I do usually fold this to 3b OOP.

Why do these advice posts always end in "you should move down."
I'm winning 5bb/s100 at 200z, why would I move down? It's not the best WR out there but I don't need to move down stakes lol.

I also did preface my post by saying I was a bit tilted in those hands.

Thanks for the posts Tyman.

BTW does anyone have an idea of how many hands/hr per table you can get on Global? They don't allow tracking software but I think they did at some point in the past and maybe ppl downloaded their hands?
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-21-2018 , 08:57 AM
Does anyone just not believe in “styles” for poker. I want my style to be whatever trueteller and Linus are doing. Am I the only one that thinks styles are complete nonsense?
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-21-2018 , 09:33 AM
Lol that post is either a troll or really bad advice. Nobody good is putting in 200k+ hands a month in 2018 and winning. QQ btn vs sb obviously a 4b (at least most of the time). KJ sb v bb is never a fold.
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-21-2018 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
Does anyone just not believe in “styles” for poker. I want my style to be whatever trueteller and Linus are doing. Am I the only one that thinks styles are complete nonsense?
Nope, styles are nonsense
at my wits end on long downswing Quote
11-21-2018 , 09:59 AM
definitely nonsense lol
at my wits end on long downswing Quote

      
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