Extremely interesting. And probably true.

@trob there is no difference in the context of harming your long term bottom line (again I want to clarify there are some rare exceptions). Because both of them do harm your long term bottom line. If a friendly winner who is respected and recognized as a good player, which is not always avoidable, and they are consistently doing something as simple as 3-betting light, cbetting small, etc., then fish start to imitate it even if they were not doing any of those things before. One memorable moment for me was playing in a home game in which I was on very good terms with everyone. I let my neighbor sweat me for a hand and then the action played out so I had to fold top set in 5 card PLO8 (the nuts at the time but two low cards and I had no redraw), that guy learned that you don't have to just jam it in and chalk it up to a cooler if you lose that day and played significantly tighter in the future

Also, in literally the very next sentence after the one you quoted I clarified a difference but you chose to omit it in your quote. It doesn't get more "purposefully obtuse" than that IMO

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Thanks everyone for commenting!

~~~been in kinda a negative mood lately due to some RL friend drama, it definitely shows in my recent responses in this thread. sorry guys I want to be better than that

much of my friend circle is through meetup.com so it is very inclusive, and I struggle with co-existing with people I dislike. I think this even shows through online as well, as I've literally quit PG&C'ing before multiple times because of how bad I feel when someone (e.g., upswinging, who I now realize I should be thankful for) makes me feel like my life choices are garbage. But then when I'm in a better state of mind I think, hmmm why do I care so much about someone whose posts are 50%+ negative, clearly they are not making better life choices than me

But yea, I'm struggling with some IRL stuff where basically I don't want to hang out with a bunch of mutual friends because of how anxious I feel with 1 specific person, I think I haven't really been dedicating enough time to solve this problem. Instead I've literally just been hanging out with a different friend group- which has been great, I met my girlfriend through that, but I don't want to be results oriented. I just super rarely hate anyone so when it does happen I really no idea how to deal with it, I don't want to make fake amends because I don't think I will ever respect them

I do feel like I finally took step 1 which is really recognizing how badly this issue is affecting me

I say go total nutso and challenge the person to a fight in front of everyone. Next time they make a snide remark or whatever is bothering you, throw down the gauntlet in front of everyone. Start beating your chest like a gorilla and make primal grunts. All of what I said may sound like a joke but I seriously mean it.

What's the issue with the person you don't like and what is the social dynamic like between that person and the rest of the group compared to you?

This is a cool documentary. Adapt some of the tactics from it. Lick your opponent to steal his chemical signal then murder him and enslave the rest of the group. That's my opinion.

^ lmao

@WereBeer he is an energy vampire, negative, dishonest, emotionally manipulative, etc. The group does like me better but the events are very inclusive, the bar is set pretty high for anyone to actually get banned (tbh I wouldn't want him to be anyway). I've only ever heard of 1 person ever getting banned from them and that was before my time, and it was from mass-texting dick pics to the girls. Anyway, he shows up frequently so I choose not to show up because I suck at co-existing (which is what I need to work on).

Kill him with kindness. Be nice to him, engage him more, talk to him. Have a candid private conversation with him. Tell him how you feel and how you perceive him. Ask him why he behaves like that. What's going wrong in his life? That could get his attitude/behavior to change.

Or steal his phone and text dick pics to all the girls from it. Schedule an event and invite everyone but him.

Do you have to talk to him, like are you sad just because he’s in the room or because he will come over and insert himself into conversations that you would otherwise enjoy?

This is the opposite of true, our bodies nearly completely process cooked meat. Steak and eggs make the least poop out of any common dish because we process this food so extremely well.

Humans are highly adapted to eating a cooked food diet, this can be observed by comparing our physiology to non-technological apes such as chimpanzees and by noting the numerous health problems experienced by raw food quacks.

Pretty much this, except I wouldn’t say sad I would more say furious, he has some malicious behaviors

Is he likely to avoid you if you tell him to GTF away from you and you look like you’re happy to throw hands if he doesn’t? How does he handle hostility or mockery? He must elicit some kind of negative reaction from other people.

I'm not entirely sure, part of why this is a struggle for me is not knowing what to expect. I doubt he would retaliate directly but I think he would in a more insidious manner which also makes me hesitant, for example after our last confrontation I heard a twisted version of the story from several of our mutual acquaintances which wasn't that big of a deal to me but still stressful

Hearing the twisted version of the story. Very infuriating. I honestly don't know how to deal with this either. Need Squid or Feel Wrath to opine. And clearly, that means confrontation is involved. Not that they are confrontation specialists, but that they appear socially fearless to me. Basically, courage is integral to the answer.

I also wonder if it's feasible to branch off and form your own invited group from a subset of the open group.

hi Aesah,

long time...I hope you're really well?

I've been encouraged to drop by and give my 2c and...I love doling out a few c of my dubious wisdom so here goes!.

it's a tough situation if I understand it

- guy is part of a group, among which there are plenty of good people that you'd like to stay in touch with
- guy is an epic ****wit who affects your energy levels and emotional wellbeing
- group only/always meets together, so if you want to see the good people, you have to deal with the ****wit.

a few, loosely linked observations

- life's too short to spend time with people who make you feel bad about yourself
- not spending time with friends/good people because of the actions of some ****ass who makes you feel bad about yourself isn't fair
- throwing hands isn't the answer for lots of reasons...it won't make you feel any better and it seems that ti would be more likely to estrange you from the rest of the group. (plus if you lose you're gonna feel even ****ing worse)
- it's probably very unlikely that he'd amend his behaviour if you find a way to address it with him in a non confrontational way...he's either a bully or a total dick and he'd probably actually take strength from your feelings and double down on his behaviour
- ****wits are rarely just ****wits to one person, so it's likely that other people have experienced/feel the same about him


IDK, it's a tough situation. If I was still in corporate land and this guy was 'in my way', I would set out to destroy him politically, but here, where you have the option of leaving the group and it doesn't have to be 'kill or be killed', I don't think it's appropriate but I still think a few of the principles could be employed.

my first step (and apologies if you've done this already..I've only read 5 posts) would be to find a way to have one on one conversations with a few other members of the group and ask their advice on this situation. Let them know you're really bothered by his behaviour and how it makes you feel...it's very possible that others experience the same thing and it's possible that a consensus may spread and build that this dude is no bueno and you might be able to get him ejected from the group, or at least get his behaviour addressed by a broader section of the group whereby he knows he needs to change or he's not welcome

even if this doesn't happen, they might/should feel enough empathy for you and this situation where you can organise to meet some of them separately in a way that allows you to spend time with them without the douchebag being present.

If neither of the above happens, then I think you're faced with either withdrawing from the group or confronting him...which I would think should probably happen in front of the entire group...as difficult a thing to do as that would be

apologies if I've missed an obvious part of the situation with the above

you're a good dude Aesah and you don't deserve to feel bad or to lose friends over this

Yes!!! Pull his pants down and expose his little soft penis. Guys like this always have a small penis and exposing it to the group and laughing with them will literally end him!

More seriously though whenever he does something offensive loudly call him out in front of the group. Confront him publicly about his bad behavior.

Hey feel wrath!

I've had a pretty good year but been a bit down in the past ~1 month-ish. The issue at hand is definitely a big part of it but it isn't everything, there are other reasons too. I mean for example the AIPF punt with KK that I posted probably affected me more than it probably should have, I feel a bit embarrassed by my weak mental and need to remind myself that I've overall made very few punts recently, OK yeah that was a huge one but if anything I should be proud of my punting record.

Regarding the issue yeah I hear you guys on everything. Quite a lot of others have issues with him, but yeah ejecting (lmao this word again) him from the group is not really feasible. I can definitely reach out to people separately or host my own stuff though. That is doable but yeah I suppose I am witnessing other friends who seem to hate him just as much but are able to tolerate his presence in order to enjoy the festivities. As if like, going to an event is +100 and his presence there is -10 for them, but for me it feels like it's +100 and -75 so it makes me feel really not worth to go. I have been striving to achieve that mentality although I don't know, it seems a lot of the advice in this thread is contrary to that goal

also lmao @ fistfighting that will 100% never happen. I do want to take self defense classes soon though!

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Thanks for the comments and advice everyone

I should mention, I'm not suggesting that you assault the guy, just saying that there is a certain type of person who will stop messing with you if verbally check them forcefully and your body language says you are ready to go. Of course, this is a high risk play and situation dependant.

feelwrath's advice is solid IMO. By the sound of it, you can use the fact that you are better liked and other people obviously think this guy is a problem.

Flying home Arkansas to visit parents for Christmas for a few days!

Merry Christmas and hope you enjoy your time with family

haven't felt too inspired to write much recently but update to the previous situation, I have mostly just been hanging out with a different group and when I do see him at events we just pretend the other doesn't exist. it's not optimal but that is how it is

Wow I've been away from this thread for like half a year again! That surprises me tbh. Main life update is I'm having my 1 year anniversary with my partner. I know people always say this and are wrong (similar to when people say they are a winning poker player), but I feel very confident we'll be together for life. She's the best

Otherwise covid sucks, feels like everyone is slightly tilted 24/7 (especially the extroverts) which has been interesting for friendships. Or maybe it just feels that way to me because I'm permanently slightly tilted. But I am very grateful that it doesn't affect me nearly as much as it affects most others.

Oh ya so the reason I came back to this thread was actually just to simply share this river misclick that made me laugh when I saw the results

Ignition - $2 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 88.9 BB
SB: 351.35 BB
Hero (BB): 192.78 BB
CO: 119.76 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) SB has T Q

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J Q

fold, fold, SB raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 3 J 8
SB bets 5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

Turn: (16 BB, 2 players) J
SB bets 13 BB, Hero calls 13 BB

River: (42 BB, 2 players) 5
SB bets 40 BB, Hero raises to 80 BB, fold

Hero wins 120.5 BB

cooler tbh

Ignition - $2 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 103.17 BB
Hero (UTG): 304.13 BB
MP: 197.72 BB
CO: 103.72 BB
BTN: 214.62 BB
SB: 97 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A A

Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 2.5 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) 2 T T
Hero bets 2.09 BB, BTN calls 2.09 BB

Turn: (10.68 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (10.68 BB, 2 players) A
Hero bets 7.62 BB, BTN raises to 33 BB, Hero raises to 299.54 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 177.04 BB and is all-in

BTN mucks 8 T (Three of a Kind, Tens)
Hero wins 428.74 BB

Max value, wp! Hope you are doin well through this crazy year.

Quarantine is definitely a struggle but ah well. I try to always practice gratitude so I feel at least quarantine has brought me a unique life experience that I've never had before (likely I would feel differently if I personally knew any epidemic victims, idk). Glad to see in your thread that you're still going strong with reading/health/self-improvement/other goals!

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versus a rec, I thought maybe he would have AQ, AJ, AT, QQ, JJ a lot given the action and fold all of those hands to turn x/r. I was wrong

Ignition - $2 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 98.5 BB
CO: 148.43 BB
BTN: 219.07 BB
Hero (SB): 135.59 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 118.41 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) BTN has K K

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J 9

fold, fold, fold, BTN calls 1 BB, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, BTN raises to 7 BB, Hero calls 3 BB

Flop: (15 BB, 2 players) T 3 K
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: (15 BB, 2 players) 8
Hero checks, BTN bets 9.06 BB, Hero raises to 29.81 BB, BTN raises to 50.56 BB, Hero calls 20.75 BB

River: (116.12 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, BTN bets 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB

BTN shows K K (Three of a Kind, Kings)
Hero mucks J 9 (One Pair, Jacks)
BTN wins 116.12 BB