These hands are played pretty poorly.

Both hands should be a fold pre.

H2 ott should be dbl barreling and you should probably be checking otr, he has a good amount of busted draws. The only hands you are targeting is Qx. You fold spazzes, bluffs, missed straights draws, missed FDs, and you don't get the max vs 7x.

H1:

AJo is simply going to run into higher Aces far too often from EP (especially when coming in for a raise where you are much more likely to fold out Aces you dominate). I think it's a trivial preflop fold and you should be upset that you cost yourself $45, imo.

H2:

Again, raising preflop is so meh from so EP with this hand. It likely plays far better as a limp than a raise, imo (although I'd fold it).

Bet too much on the flop, imo (if we should be betting at all since not all of our outs are clean).

The turn and your title of "Implied Odds" is really where you show what you're missing, imo. First, even if all your OESD outs are good on the turn you need 5:1 to chase; you're only getting not quite 3:1, which means you need to make up 2 bets called 100% of the time on the river just to breakeven. You ended up breaking even here, and that was the best case scenario. What happens when he doesn't call the river bet when you hit (such as when the flush comes in and scares him away or he just has second pair and folds)? Or what happens when your magic card fills him up / flushes him? Or when you're already drawing dead? You don't have nearly the IO you think you do. Chasing OESD on the turn on paired boards with other possible outs that are dirty is a poker 101 class.

Curious as to what Delusional thinks of these hands.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Basic rule of thumb:

Drawing on the turn requires the same %pot size valuebet to be payed off when you hit. This is just to break even, as GG pointed out.

Yay, hero broke even. :highfive:

I didn't double barrel the KT because villain appeared stationy and I thought that there was hardly any fold equity. I think the fact that villain showed up with K7o here is testament to the fact that he probably wouldn't fold Jx to a double barrel, so there's hardly any point barreling against this specific player. I also didn't want to x/r the river because I've seen so many players make ridiculous check backs on the river whenever a draw gets there (eg. checking back top set because a frontdoor flush got there). I also thought that my Kx is often live on the river, which gives me 11 outs instead of 8. I had planned to make a blocker bet on the river if I hit my King.

If I go by the assumption that I only have 8 outs (or even less) on the river, then I can see a case for x/folding the turn instead.

I guess AJo and KTs are both pretty marginal EP opens on a full-ring table. Folding pre would've been okay in both instances too. I've tightened up my EP opening range and gotten rid of all my 22-66, A2s-A9s and 76s-T9s that I used to open. But I still haven't gotten rid of the AJo/KQo/weak suited broadways.

Somehow I doubt you're the kind of player that calculates equity/odds at the table even if you do count outs. You also shouldn't be saying "I have 11 outs" to yourself at the table. It should be "on average I have x amount of outs because these cards are dead some % of the time and I have rio when I hit and lose". All of that ties into gg's post that seems to have flown way over your head.

I would rather open A5s and T9s UTG than AJo and KQo in most game conditions.

OP has shown in this thread that KQo and AJo are his biggest money incinerators, especially when he 3bets them.

If you guys see a new player that you've never seen before at your casino and he seems good/maybe like an online reg, what are your thoughts and how would you exploit him/adjust your game?

There's no time to make perfect calculations when you've got 15 seconds to think before your hand is dead. I do make rough calculations though. I try to make a rough estimate for how much equity my hand has against my opponent's range and whether a call is probably justified or not.

I understand what gobbledygeek is saying, but this is NLHE, not PLO. You don't just autofold all your straight draws in NLHE because you don't have a backup flush draw or because the board is paired and there's a boat possibility and you could be drawing dead. That's a good attitude to have in PLO, but it's too nitty for NLHE.

There actually aren't too many boats he can have on a QJ77 board, especially given the preflop and flop action. Besides, I can easily fold to a river raise if I hit my straight and make a substantial bet, so it's not like I'm getting stacked if I do run into a boat.

Really? I would've thought that having the raw strength of AJo and KQo would be more valuable than the playability of A5s and T9s, but I could be wrong.

I'm not 3betting these hands as frequently as I used to. I'm usually just folding them against an open raise, unless I have reason to believe that the villain is opening an exceptionally wide range.

Bluff him more. Trap him more. 3bet, 4bet and 5bet him lighter. Call him down lighter.

overbluff in uncommon spots and pretend to suck.

Pretend?



Interested in more replies, thanks.

Again, what gg said went way over your head. Please reread what he said. Then read what I expanded with. It isn't just a boat you can lose to otr. You should learn equity/odds/outs. I know you're stubborn af but surely you can learn that. If you don't have the ambition to do so, you should find another hobby. Also, if you don't have the ambition to do so, you'll never be a winning player online where your edge is much smaller.

You're also dead set in playing AJo/KTs type of hands in ep but this hand shows why playing those hands is a losing play...especially if you don't have a grasp on fundamental poker math.

edit: also nowhere in my post did i say "you should fold". In a roundabout way, I said you should learn to count outs properly and learn equity/odds. Yes, it'll take you to the correct conclusion to fold.

Blanket statements like "opening AJ from e.p. is bad" is silly. In a tough lineup, it's bad. In a weak lineup, its very +ev. It's up to you to figure out what kind of edge you have on the players left to act and then go from there.

Right-- these are the bottom of a solid 6max UTG opening range. Can't see them ever being good opens full-ring live from EP outside of particular circumstances.

h1 breakeven/slightly losing open depending on table, h2 a bit better

h1 not a cb 4 ways on this board, as played very easy fold nothing to be happy about

h2 bet turn or x/fold. betting turn even against a station is much better than x/calling.

you play very few hands against a random for it to matter but mostly just play standard against and don't overfold like you would vs the passive players that frequent the pool. potentially wait for him to get impatient with 20h/hr and spazz

As long as our read continues to be "this guy is likely pretty good", the best move is to make sure we're not sitting OOP to him (especially when deep) plus pass on getting into pots with him in very marginal spots (i.e. avoidance is a good baseline tactic).

GknowwhereyourmoneycomesfromG

This was what my answer was going to be.

Basically, do not exploit that player, as you do the rest.

Isolated already touched on all this but...

It doesn't matter that your outs aren't always dirty or that you can get away after getting raised, etc. All that matters is if the turn call is long term profitable when you add up all the different cases you'll run into.

In this case here, you ran into the *nut best case scenario* (you made your hand, it was good, it didn't put the scary flush on board, and he had pretty much the nut high hand that is worse) and yet we *broke even* on our turn call. If we're breaking even in the nut best case scenario, how does the average result look?

GcluelessNLnoobG

K gives him kq kj and two straights. You are going to value bet on a card that gives him like 40 extra combos that beat you? It's a little hard for him to already have a boat ott so you basically got 5 outs, 6 non flush minus whichever card might give him a boat. Now you paid 55 to hit your out 10% of time and you won 320, sometimes he will fold or raise, so let's say he folds 1/4 of the time congrats your ev with this line is -31$ plus whatever you make on average on other rivers which is like 5$. Every time you make this play you lose more than 1hr of ev.

Great to hear it is going well, sounds like you are playing well and making good decisions. Keep up the good work. Make sure you don't play too long late into the day, or play when you are tired. If you get one of those brutal sessions where everything seems to go wrong, which happens to everyone, don't be afraid to walk away and pick it back up tomorrow.

And it never hurts to play a bit tighter. But all in all it sounds like you are doing great and in the zone. Keep crushing!

They kill your hand after 15 seconds at Crowne? What??

I have a HH group that I’ve created and added 6bme and all the verifiers in to discuss hands played in the session. Most hands are played well, a small fraction of hands are played poorly, that’s understandable because we all make mistakes throughout our sessions. It’s a long process of identifying leaks, and trying to plug them to tailor fit a winning 1/3 live strategy.

6betme has gone on a sunrun, but there’s no denying that a big part attributing to this upswing is the fact he is a winning player. As I’ve previously mentioned, if you remove all of the external factors and vices in 6betme’s life, I have no doubt he will continue to be winning in the long run.

The real question is, can he continue to have this level of discipline off stake, where nobody is micro managing him. If the answer is no, then that’s okay too, because this arrangement is one I’m more than happy to maintain as it’s a solid source of passive income.

It’s hardly passive income for the amount of micromanaging you have to arrange to keep him on the straight and narrow.

Passive income is a BS term. No such thing.



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It doesn't seem that he is personally putting in the effort or paying 6bms handlers. If that is the case then it is passive income.