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07-31-2018 , 05:41 PM
It’s hard to put a number on exactly how much money I’ve lost in my life. I mean, it’s not like I’ve kept detailed records, nor have I kept any sort of running tally in my brain. My best estimate, as far as I can tell, is that it’s around $50K over the last 10 years or so, give or take a little, but who knows really? It could be more. And that’s just the net loss, that’s not even counting how many times I have won money, only to turn around and donate it back over next couple of sessions (or even in the same session.) That number is probably 2 or 3 times the original number, but again I’m just estimating. I know one thing for sure, for all of the ten’s of thousands of dollars I’ve deposited to the various online poker sites I have played on over the years, I have never once made a single withdrawal.

I’ve reached a point in my life where I simply can’t continue to spew money away like this. I sit here, a broken man. I am currently about $40k in debt (credit cards and personal loans) half of which I added in just the last couple of months as I went on a massive losing streak. I am the epitome of a compulsive gambler, a true degenerate. 3 Months ago, I had a plan (and was very much on track) to be debt free in 2 years or less. Now, I don’t even know if I make enough money to cover the minimum payments on everything I owe. What the **** is wrong with me?

After I made my last deposit on Global Poker (which was about the only site I had left to play on, as I had self-excluded with the declaration that I had a gambling problem on Ignition, America’s Cardroom, and BetOnline) I decided that this was it, my final deposit. I couldn’t go any deeper than this. It was make it or break it time. So I made that last deposit of $500 on Friday and by Saturday Noon, I was up to $2k and riding high (actually I hit a high of $2.4k, but gave a little back on the tables before I ended the session.) Then things started to go south. After dinner I found myself back down to $400, but was able to successfully run it back up to $1k by the time I went to sleep that evening. Sunday was more of the same. Up to $2k, back down to $600, end the night at $1k. C’mon man, get it together…..

Yeah well, I guess I don’t have to tell you what happened next do I? I had already scheduled that Monday off of work for unrelated reason, but my plans fell through. No matter, I wanted to keep playing poker anyway. I started playing early, and things started to go south early. The first mistake that I made was accidently joining a PLO table, instead of NLHE. I almost got up and left the table after the first hand was dealt, but there was only 1 other person sitting at the time and I find that I play my best PLO when I’m playing heads up (granted, PLO is really swingy. It’s dangerous as hell even with a proper bankroll, but it’s downright suicidal with just 2.5 buy ins. Still I played….) I was down to $400 before I even knew what hit me. I ended up nursing that $400 the rest of the morning and into the early afternoon, then finally I found myself with my last $130 on a $1/2 table. I had $240 in my account when I sat down, bought in for $200, topped off twice and now had swung way down after my QQ ran into AA) and finally I get it all in pre-flop with 99 knowing I am behind but hoping for a miracle by the river, a miracle that never comes. I knew that I was donking it all off, but at this point, **** it. Who cares? What’s the point? I’m $40k in the whole, what’s $130 gonna do?

There was one silver lining to this story however. So a few weeks ago I decide to make an account on BlackChip Poker (which for those of you who aren’t familiar, it is another skin on the winning poker network. Basically it’s just another name for America’s cardroom. The player pools are the same, some just sign in with ACR, and some with BCP.) I had been trying to make a deposit on there for at least a week, but they wouldn’t take any of my credit cards. First it was because they were associated with my ACR account, and that these particular cards couldn’t be accepted. But eventually they say that they can no longer accept ANY credit card payments from me due to the reason for my other account being deactivated, but that I could deposit via crypto currency. (Great, so if you’re a degenerate gambler they can’t take your credit card, but dabbling in the highly volatile world of crypto currency was perfectly fine. Go figure.) I tried doing the Crypto run around for a couple of days, but I couldn’t find a site that would take credit cards (and my bank account is almost -$400 so that was a no go) So other than playing the occasional freeroll (like honestly, what the hell am I going to do with $2.5 if I actually ship one of these things?!?) I haven’t really done much on the site. Though I wanted to, as ACR was the closest thing to a pre-black Friday FullTilt I have found.

Finally, yesterday I get an e-mail from BCP saying they have credited my account with $5, just because. Hey I have money! So I log in, and of course I promptly lose it at a $5 HU PLO table. No big deal, but this get’s me to thinking though, and I remember that sometime after I closed my ACR account I received an e-mail saying I was the victim of cheating (in the form of collusion if I remember correctly) and $90ish dollars was credited to my account. I had tried to reply to that e-mail, but to no avail. Because it came from the Winning Poker network, and not ACR proper, after I lost that initial e-mail (must have deleted it by accident) I didn’t know how to get back in touch with them, and several attempts to e-mail various address that I thought help all came up short. Since my account was closed anyway, I didn’t really worry about it. I just chalked it up to yet another loss and didn’t really think about it again. But, since BCP credited my account with this money, I thought, hey maybe they could put that other money from my ACR account onto this account (I didn’t even know if that was possible, but what the hell, it’s worth a short right?) So I e-mailed them back and asked them about the earlier e-mail regarding the ACR refund (knowing damn well this could be BCP suicide. If they realized I had self-excluded due to gambling addiction, they may just cancel this account too, which is what happened on Bovado/ignition. I self-excluded on Ignition, but when Bovada reopened alongside Ignition, I still couldn’t log into that account because it got flagged for my declaration of a gambling problem on the sister site) but lo and behold, less than 2 hours after sending my initial e-mail, with very little back and forth, I had $93.50 in my BCP account!

Score! So now I have some money to play on. Of course my first plan was to just take it all to a .50c/$1 NLHE table and try and double it up as quickly as I could so I could then head over to the $1/$2 table and try to double it up there…. But then I get to thinking. This is it. I mean this is really it. I have no more money to play on, and won’t have any for god knows how long. I am broke. In fact I am as broke as broke can be. I am Mike McDermitt driving Kinish’s truck broke. If I’m ever going to make anything happen, now is the time. Now clearly, without a bankroll in place I am incapable of staying in the game for any real length of time. Hell, I don’t even know if I am good enough to stay in the game even with a bankroll, but you know what. I am going to find out. What’s the worst that can happen, I go broke? Hell I have been broke thousands of times before (in fact, about 50 thousand times….) so, for the first time in my life I’m actually going to practice proper Bankroll Management and see if I can move up the stakes. I’m going to grind as many tables of .02c/.05c as I can, as often as I can, and once I hit 20 buy-in’s for the next level, I will move up. If at any time I get down to 10 buy-ins for my current level, I will move down. Simple as that.

Truth be told, I didn’t get off to a great start last night. I finished up -$10.53 on the session (I was playing 12 tables at the height of it.) Some of it was bad luck, some was bad play, but overall it was what it was. I got it all in on the flop with a set of 8’s against a flush draw and gut-shot Broadway draw, Broadway go there on the river. I ran QQ into KK getting it all in either on the turn or the river, I don’t remember which. You could call that a cooler, but really I knew I needed to fold them dirty bitches, but I just couldn’t get way from the hand. Lost some pretty large pots (half my stack with AQ on a Q high board to AA, lost another very large pot with AJ on an J high board to QQ. I mean, all of these could have been avoided, but they were fairly standard. Here is the thing though. To lose 2 buy ins before would have been devastating, maybe even catastrophic. That easily would have been most of, if not all of my bankroll. Now,2 buy-ins down and I am not even sweating it, I still have 16 buy-ins for my current level. As it stands, my bankroll is sitting $82.97. I am going to continue multi-tabling $5NL.

I have to wonder, could this really be the start of my poker journey? I mean, Doug Polk started off like this didn’t he? (Granted he hadn’t lost nearly as much money as I have, but who the hell has?) Is it really possible, could it really happen for me like it did him and so many others? I don’t know. Logic would dictate that if I was going to be a winning poker player, It would have happened by now, right? I don’t know, maybe/maybe not. Maybe by practicing proper BRM I will be able to stay in the game long enough to actually work on improving my game, fix my leaks, and finally have that breakthrough that has felt like it was just around the corner, but has eluded me for the better part of the last 10 years.

My plan is to give you guys updates along the way, while also flashing back and fleshing out some of the backstory, as I left out a ton of things I wanted to say (my first attempt at this post came out looking more like a memoir than a blog post) but mostly I just wanted to get a lot of this **** off my chest. No one really knows the full extent of my gambling problems. Sure, lots of people know pieces of it, but I have never told anybody the full story. Hell, the closest GA meeting is something like an hour and some change away (with traffic) which if it wasn’t for that commute, I probably would have carried my fat ass over to one of those damn things just to finally be able to spill my guts to perhaps the only people on the planet that would understand what it is that I am going through. Still though, ll don’t think I would have ever given up on poker. Not fully anyway. This game is in my blood….

So buckle up. Worst case scenario, I go broke (what else is new?) but you get some good stories out of the deal. Best case? I progress up the ranks until I have a $10k bankroll and I am crushing $2/$5 on a regular basis. That has always been the dream, going all the way back to 2009. A $10k bankroll, and making a solid living playing poker. It’s sad that it has taken me 10 years and $50k to get to this point, but here I am. Maybe, just maybe, I can turn this thing around and give you guys an upswing story for the ages…..
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07-31-2018 , 06:01 PM
Hey! Wait, is the story true & you've never really did withdrawals? Wow

Welcome to the forum! Yeah, you can grind NL5, but it's a slow frustrating grind, unless you're mega-super-good and adjusted for the NL5 like some of the forum guys here.
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07-31-2018 , 06:56 PM
So..

Are you trying to get better then?
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07-31-2018 , 07:21 PM
When's the movie coming out ?
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07-31-2018 , 08:18 PM
Keep us updated. I love reading stories of broke losers who think they matter.
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07-31-2018 , 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by carloshmz
When's the movie coming out ?
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Originally Posted by Jsingles
Keep us updated. I love reading stories of broke losers who think they matter.
Guys, wtf? Don't shame the 'fish'. If he knew he can just buy blackrain79 back in the day for $50, then deposit $50 and grind 2nl slowly via investing time into experience & awful hourly that builds up his experience he might've never deposited again after than $50 & then withdrawn his first $1000 4 months later, yes, **** hourly, but $1k withdrawal that would've proven him that depositing small & grinding up to something OK is real & can be repeated

But he did't, he was not aware of this option back in the day. At least, not on an emotional / decision-making level.

It could've went otherwise, he could've been a small winner like you two w/o net loss on a record, still wasting his time, but at least no wasting time + money from his main balance. Being where he is nothing to be ashamed of, especially since he's overpaying a ton for it anyway via having the stupid debt & being down money anyway.
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07-31-2018 , 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Brokenstars
So..

Are you trying to get better then?
So much, this. You need to have a plan and schedule of study and become a hard working player if you are going to keep playing poker (which you probably shouldn't even be doing at this point). Your main focus really needs to be clearing your debt and remember that poker is not the solution to doing that.

Best of luck hope you can get your **** together
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07-31-2018 , 09:26 PM
GL OP , run it up

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Originally Posted by Jsingles
Keep us updated. I love reading stories of broke losers who think they matter.
You want us to go troll your "making pennies at low stakes" thread? Stay humble buddy
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07-31-2018 , 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by EPTchips
Hey! Wait, is the story true & you've never really did withdrawals? Wow

Welcome to the forum! Yeah, you can grind NL5, but it's a slow frustrating grind, unless you're mega-super-good and adjusted for the NL5 like some of the forum guys here.
Unfortunately, this is very much a true story. I take degen to a whole new level.....
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07-31-2018 , 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Brokenstars
So..

Are you trying to get better then?
Absolutely. That is the plan. Do you think I like being a fish that just gives away money every month?
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07-31-2018 , 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by OutlawLuck
Absolutely. That is the plan. Do you think I like being a fish that just gives away money every month?
What's your plan?
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07-31-2018 , 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsingles
Keep us updated. I love reading stories of broke losers who think they matter.
Hey man, everyone matters to someone!
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07-31-2018 , 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by EPTchips
Guys, wtf? Don't shame the 'fish'. If he knew he can just buy blackrain79 back in the day for $50, then deposit $50 and grind 2nl slowly via investing time into experience & awful hourly that builds up his experience he might've never deposited again after than $50 & then withdrawn his first $1000 4 months later, yes, **** hourly, but $1k withdrawal that would've proven him that depositing small & grinding up to something OK is real & can be repeated

But he did't, he was not aware of this option back in the day. At least, not on an emotional / decision-making level.

It could've went otherwise, he could've been a small winner like you two w/o net loss on a record, still wasting his time, but at least no wasting time + money from his main balance. Being where he is nothing to be ashamed of, especially since he's overpaying a ton for it anyway via having the stupid debt & being down money anyway.
I grind it up all the time, that's the problem. I know it possible, because I seem to make it happen every couple of deposits. The problem, it's never enough to stem the tide when I start losing. Obviously, BRM has been a problem. Not taking the game serious enough (especially at the low and micro stakes) etc.
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07-31-2018 , 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by OutlawLuck
Unfortunately, this is very much a true story. I take degen to a whole new level.....
Yeah, I felt that way when reading it. Like first 1/3 of your text wall, pure snuff, this is the stuff. Last 2/3 you seemed to cool down a little, but doesn't matter, I'm not here to judge you as a writer

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Originally Posted by OutlawLuck
I grind it up all the time, that's the problem. I know it possible, because I seem to make it happen every couple of deposits. The problem, it's never enough to stem the tide when I start losing. Obviously, BRM has been a problem. Not taking the game serious enough (especially at the low and micro stakes) etc.
Lol, thx for replying to my post, specifically, appreciated. Could've replied to Dubnjoy or something.

Grinding out in poker. Yeah it would be epic AF if you make it, but it's hard. For me making $100k in poker is easier than for you, because of my situation. You're in a tough spot. 1)you have small BR 2)you're in debt, actual debt, none of the rest of us in actual debt 3)you have history of losing money, we have history of making money and withdrawing 4)it's hard, man. Ofc, the gap is lower than I write it to be, but it's a hard task.

What's your outlook on just optimizing your main job and being out of the debt in a year or two?
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07-31-2018 , 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Brokenstars
What's your plan?
Well at this point, it's really just to try and grind and develop some discipline. I know, I know, "but you need to study...." I have been studying poker for a decade now. Now, admittedly I have not read any books (could that be what I am missing?) but as far as the plethora of free resources on line (blogs, youtube vids, articles, poker forums etc) I have studied quite a bit. The problem is, that stuff only tells you how to win, it doesn't really tell you how to not lose. I have seen my game improve, from being someone who maybe could be a small winner on this session (only to lose on the next session) to being the guy that routinely runs a couple hundred into a thousand or two. I know how to win, I just don't seem to know how to not lose.

So, to more directly answer your question. First and foremost, I hope to gain some valuable insight from 2p2 (as I am a newbie here) and eventually start doing some more studying of the game. I probably will eventually get into some books (as I have been meaning to for a few years now, I just never got around to it) as well as maybe going back and watching some of the elementary poker content that I left in the dust years ago. Obviously, there are some major poker fundamentals that I have not put into practice as of yet!
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07-31-2018 , 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by EPTchips
Yeah, I felt that way when reading it. Like first 1/3 of your text wall, pure snuff, this is the stuff. Last 2/3 you seemed to cool down a little, but doesn't matter, I'm not here to judge you as a writer

Lol, thx for replying to my post, specifically, appreciated. Could've replied to Dubnjoy or something.

Grinding out in poker. Yeah it would be epic AF if you make it, but it's hard. For me making $100k in poker is easier than for you, because of my situation. You're in a tough spot. 1)you have small BR 2)you're in debt, actual debt, none of the rest of us in actual debt 3)you have history of losing money, we have history of making money and withdrawing 4)it's hard, man. Ofc, the gap is lower than I write it to be, but it's a hard task.

What's your outlook on just optimizing your main job and being out of the debt in a year or two?
Lets see. Well as far as the debt situation goes. I would expect probably at least 5 years to get all this debt paid off, probably a lot longer. But, that's just one of those things, I put my head down and do my work and pay my bills. I've been carrying debt for about 12 years now in one form or another. I always pay it off eventually, unfortunately I always end up picking up more along the way!

Do I actually expect to make it? No, not really. I mean, c'mon. Clearly there is something missing here. I mean I've been playing poker for 10 years now. How is it that I still can't beat the game? Can you go on tilt for a decade? I honestly don't know why I am a losing player, other than the obvious (I don't fold enough.)
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07-31-2018 , 10:27 PM
What's your bankroll management plan?

What will you do if you bust this roll?
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07-31-2018 , 10:31 PM
Man this thread is about to go off the rails before the train even leaves the station....

They got me today. Down $29.73. So after 2 days I have come to two very obvious conclusions. First, I have already got to drop down to $2NL. 2) Playing 8-12 tables is simply too much for me to follow. I had to cascade my tables just to fit that many on my screen (I only have a single monitor) and honestly I can't even tell you why I lost when I lost. I just make my decisions and move on to the next hand. I know I ran some big hands into god knows what. I just kept expecting to see my stacks move up as each screen popped up, but about half were constent at $5 (I had auto top off set on all tables) I started to realize I had a problem when some big hands that I totaly expected to win didnt appear to be coming through, but I knew I had really run into a problem when the buy-in screen popped up. Holy ****. I had used up my whole bankroll, and everything I had left was on the table (12 or 12 tables at this point.) ****....

All of this make me ****ing sick to be honest. I was playing $400 NL 2 days ago. I have logged countless hours playing $200NL (both live and online) the idea of playing for pennies almost makes me want to not even play. But the truth is, I love this game. I always have. At the end of the day, I'd rather play for pennies than not at all. I just really am lost at this point. I don't understand why I am losing all the time. I had all intentions of trying to take down a few hand histories for you guys, but I really couldn't with everything going on. Hopefully once I move down the level I will be able to take some more detailed notes. I am going to trying just playing 6 tables. If that doesn't work, I'll drop down to 4 (I have 4 tabled for years, so that isn't a problem. I have never really tried to play more than that until yesterday.)

Bankroll now sits at $53.24....
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07-31-2018 , 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by OutlawLuck
Lets see. Well as far as the debt situation goes. I would expect probably at least 5 years to get all this debt paid off, probably a lot longer. But, that's just one of those things, I put my head down and do my work and pay my bills. I've been carrying debt for about 12 years now in one form or another. I always pay it off eventually, unfortunately I always end up picking up more along the way!

Do I actually expect to make it? No, not really. I mean, c'mon. Clearly there is something missing here. I mean I've been playing poker for 10 years now. How is it that I still can't beat the game? Can you go on tilt for a decade? I honestly don't know why I am a losing player, other than the obvious (I don't fold enough.)
Stop being modest, you're clearly older than me. Make sicker plans & crush 'em.

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Originally Posted by OutlawLuck
Man this thread is about to go off the rails before the train even leaves the station....

They got me today. Down $29.73. So after 2 days I have come to two very obvious conclusions. First, I have already got to drop down to $2NL. 2) Playing 8-12 tables is simply too much for me to follow. I had to cascade my tables just to fit that many on my screen (I only have a single monitor) and honestly I can't even tell you why I lost when I lost. I just make my decisions and move on to the next hand. I know I ran some big hands into god knows what. I just kept expecting to see my stacks move up as each screen popped up, but about half were constent at $5 (I had auto top off set on all tables) I started to realize I had a problem when some big hands that I totaly expected to win didnt appear to be coming through, but I knew I had really run into a problem when the buy-in screen popped up. Holy ****. I had used up my whole bankroll, and everything I had left was on the table (12 or 12 tables at this point.) ****....

All of this make me ****ing sick to be honest. I was playing $400 NL 2 days ago. I have logged countless hours playing $200NL (both live and online) the idea of playing for pennies almost makes me want to not even play. But the truth is, I love this game. I always have. At the end of the day, I'd rather play for pennies than not at all. I just really am lost at this point. I don't understand why I am losing all the time. I had all intentions of trying to take down a few hand histories for you guys, but I really couldn't with everything going on. Hopefully once I move down the level I will be able to take some more detailed notes. I am going to trying just playing 6 tables. If that doesn't work, I'll drop down to 4 (I have 4 tabled for years, so that isn't a problem. I have never really tried to play more than that until yesterday.)

Bankroll now sits at $53.24....
I have had +$100 days on NL5z (!!!!) on Stars w/o any rakeback. Yes, I played 10k hands a day, ran hot, doesn't matter.

You should not lose in those stakes unless a)you don't know 5z strat b)can't fold c)play zoned out / drunk / super tired

Also, you can get a cash coach, a cool dude teaching you how to crush it so you can just replicate it.
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07-31-2018 , 10:41 PM
you should play 2 tables max
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07-31-2018 , 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Brokenstars
What's your bankroll management plan?

What will you do if you bust this roll?
Well, my roll is now down to an abysmal $53ish bucks. So I have to drop down to the $2NL tables. So sick....

Perhaps at some point I will make another deposit, but at this point I really don't want to. I have wasted enough money on poker. I am in make it or break it mode. Gonna try to just grind this $50 up, on level at a time. I mean, had I done that 10 years ago, before all the ****. Before all the lost money, before all the winning thousands of dollars (which totally give you false hope) I probably could have got my head right, studied the game, and moved up the stakes. Even if it had taken me all of the last 8 or 9 years, where would I have been had I always practices proper BRM? I certainly wouldn't be as indebted as I am, and I damn sure wouldn't have lost as much money as I have.

As far as what games I am going to play. I'll probably mix it up some. NLHE, PLO, and some SNG's MTT's. I mean, with a $50 bankroll, I will get more enjoyment out of SNG's and MTT's than I will cash games (and let's face it, enjoyment is about all I am going to get out this pitiful little bankroll lol)
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07-31-2018 , 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Brokenstars
you should play 2 tables max
I am very comfortable playing 4 tables. 6 would be stretch, but doesn't seem to be a problem. More than that was an extremely bad experiment.
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07-31-2018 , 10:49 PM
You playing tonight? Got Skype? Want free coaching for an evening?
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07-31-2018 , 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by EPTchips
Stop being modest, you're clearly older than me. Make sicker plans & crush 'em.


I have had +$100 days on NL5z (!!!!) on Stars w/o any rakeback. Yes, I played 10k hands a day, ran hot, doesn't matter.

You should not lose in those stakes unless a)you don't know 5z strat b)can't fold c)play zoned out / drunk / super tired

Also, you can get a cash coach, a cool dude teaching you how to crush it so you can just replicate it.
Honestly, I think today and yesterday was more bad luck than bad skill (then again, I have thought I was getting unlucky for years. I do believe, wholeheartedly, that I am more unlucky than most. But I know that isn't the problem. I have got to plug these leaks!
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07-31-2018 , 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by OutlawLuck
Honestly, I think today and yesterday was more bad luck than bad skill (then again, I have thought I was getting unlucky for years. I do believe, wholeheartedly, that I am more unlucky than most. But I know that isn't the problem. I have got to plug these leaks!
In micros, you can dodge the bullets, because most people are too f-king obvious. Which means, even if you ran horrid, still should have 70-80 roll, not 53.
Just take the free coaching from BrokenStars already and gl!_)


Question. Would you still play poker, if you could only make $3k a month, net? & $4k+ was impossible? Would you grind at $3k a month to repay your debt?
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