Thanks Bro, The redline bugs me allot but it motivates me to break down my game even more and try and plug leaks.

Zack last time we discussed this you were singing a bit of a different tune regarding the redline. What changed for you?

You're right LTT. The reason I've changed my opinion is because I talked with one of the best hyper/ST players around about it. His 2+2 name is beserious, but he doesn't want his Lock name outed. Anyways, he sees no reason why it wouldn't be a very good estimation of your EV, unless there's actually something intrinsically wrong with how the HEM is importing or calculating hands. The fact that it is 65/35 makes a very very small difference.

Yea we are all learning all the time. I was just curious why.

Yea the 65/35 was never my issue as I couldn't comprehend how it would make a drastic difference. I just think in a push fold game the redline can be more of a representation of how you run in card distribution. Blake and I joked the other day that the redline shows how you run preflop and the green line shows how you run postflop.

I think in more normal speed sngs and cash games obviously the redline is much more representative of your skill level than it is in these games. Still yet to see anything definitive on the subject so this is just a hypothesis at this point, but I see too many really good players wtih drastically downward sloping redlines lots of their days. With that said ruse has posted some graphs with a constantly positive redline for a months graph so it is hard to say.

I'd actually like to hear ruses take on it.

Zack one more question for you. When we had this discussion last time it started with me reading your thread and your tribulations with your own redline. Have you since found a way to get that line constantly positive?

Over my last 20K sngs, my redline is -.5%. Works out to about -$5/hour pre RB, and about $20/hour post RB, not including LB winnings or anything

......Unfortunately, my greenline has been -2.7% (ridiculously huge difference over such a large sample) so I've actually only made a few $/hour in the past 2 months or so. It's very frustrating, but I stay afloat with LB winnings and stuff like that. Not much you can do but keep studying. Keep trying to get that redline looking better, etc..

You should read the first post in this blog here, by beserious:

http://gametheoryinpractice.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the honest answer. Sorry to hear the green line isn't cooperating with you. Hopefully it comes around soon.

In another discussion with Blake he agreed with you that the line should be accurate, but in these games it probably takes a minimum of 100k games to know what it really looks like.

Going to check out the blog now. Thanks.

nice post.. im doing the same sort of... how do u start a thread on here? i have no idea lol if anyone can help me out on that plz pm me

Think about how much is going to change over 100K games bro. I've been grinding pretty regularly since August and I only have like 40K (granted I've progressively increased my volume from 30/hour to 100/hour, but still). Saying that it would take a huge number like 100K games is ignoring how much a person is going to change as a player, how much the opponents are going to change, changes in stakes, and a whole host of other factors.

Bottom line: the redline is a lower variance estimation/function of the greenline. Sure, there are sessions where you're gonna run AQ into AK and JJ into KK a bunch, hurting your redline, but there are gonna be plenty of sessions where the opposite occurs.

If my redline is garbage for a couple of sessions, I don't pay any mind to it. However, if it is consistently going in the negative direction, it is a stong indication that I am not getting my money in good, and that I need to make adjustments. It is a model; it is a tool. It's not everything though, I agree.

OP, sorry for derailing so much! If LTT and I want to talk about this any further I'm sure we can find another venue

Talk away no Probs the red line issue has been tilting me like crazy and LT knows this since he hears me stress on it daily. Been making a few changes today and liking how much the red line is going up steady today. Obvious very small sample and could just be run good but I am trying to find spots where I can improve my red line. I would actually like to get even more discussion on this issue from others if possible.

Another update for anyone out there who may be reading. I was able to put in 616 games total on Friday to ship the Prop bet. I lost like 10 buy in's but bounced back well today winning just shy of 40 buy in's pre RB. The best part about today is my red line went up pretty nicely after making some more tweaks to my game.

Not sure what else to say other then it feels good to be working and plugging away leaks and getting good results. Hopefully the redline will continue to go up and I hope to get even Pre RB sometime this Month. We just finished a group coaching session hosted by Zorandar where I learned some more valuable spots I can improve on.(Thanks Bro)

Currently I am 12th on the leader board and would like to finish in the top 6 this Month if at all possible. Hopefully I will hit a 5 strk and be able to move up and achieve this goal. At the start of this thread I didn't put in a goal for the leader board due to how low my confidence was in my game at the time. Gonna start trying to gradually get my games per hr up starting tomorrow. Hopefully 5's fill faster then the past 2 days so I don't have to add in $2's to achieve this. Last but not least the cats out of the bag to my Lock Nick so flame away if u want about how bad I am lol.


Good luck everyone I will post a graph next update and everyone is free to post a thread saver if they like it will be better then reading me rambiling on I am sure.

Sorry for not updating this to often I will try and post at least every other day here on out. Since the start of this thread with some good Direction (coaching) I have been able to really turn things around so far. I still got that voice or you can call it fear in the back of my head that I am just on a massive heater but time will tell I guess.

One thing I have learned from the 20k games of these that I have played thus far is your game is constantly changing. I lol at the fact I played 14k of these some 11 cent ones up to $2 ones w/o a clue to what optimal strategy is for these and still made a small profit pre Rakeback. (fishn4crackers) I look forward to the challenge of reaching the $20's and beyond hopefully sometime in the near future. Oh yeah I forgot 2 days ago I got the go ahead to start playing the 10's and so far so good. Had a roller coaster of a day today and will post a graph after im done playing tonight. 2 x VIP's gotta grind out that Rake GL all!