Interesting discussion IMO, as for me it seems like a standard Check-Raise OTF with the top of my flatting-range pre flop Would love to hear some more opinions on the subject from other people here.

Interesting hand from today, vs an agrro fish. My gut told me that I'm strong OTF+OTT, but my stats calimed otherwise. Finally I swallowed and shoved the turn. Thoughts?

PokerStars - $5 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

natefive (BTN): $583.25 (VPIP: 24.53, PFR: 18.93, 3Bet Preflop: 6.21, Hands: 435)
stasia42 (SB): $815.73
Dimka19881 (BB): $394.86 (VPIP: 18.67, PFR: 16.00, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 76)
magorko (UTG): $1,124.69 (VPIP: 22.51, PFR: 17.27, 3Bet Preflop: 7.33, Hands: 842)
DPN10 (MP): $173.36 (VPIP: 46.15, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
AlphaDonK2k9 (CO): $500.00 (VPIP: 22.54, PFR: 18.82, 3Bet Preflop: 10.51, Hands: 797)

stasia42 posts SB $2.50, Dimka19881 posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $7.50) stasia42 has Q Q

fold, fold, fold, fold, stasia42 raises to $12.50, Dimka19881 calls $7.50

Flop: ($25.00, 2 players) A 7 6
stasia42 bets $17.19, Dimka19881 raises to $45.00, stasia42 calls $27.81

Turn: ($115.00, 2 players) 4
stasia42 checks, Dimka19881 bets $75.00, stasia42 raises to $758.23 and is all-in, fold

I activated zen mode aha. Plus you were right on this one so credit where it's due/

Well assume he opens a reasonable amount from the button, count the amount of Qx combos he has (which obviously he doesn't fold). Then count all the other hands he calls you with that you beat. (you don't beat nfd etc obv) That should show you why you can't x/r for value.

Can u exp y u shoved there?
You think he wouldnt call an Ax?
And if most of his range is a bluffs its not better flat ott and call river?
(8,3,k,5?)

dont like it at all

1st: Check/Call flop is superior imo

As played, why would you ever shove the turn? If you thi k he is bluffing calling is 100x times better -.- . Shoving is the bad/easywayout option. I understand why I mean, you think ur ahead sometimes and you want to get value from the draws and not give them a free card, still calling is better.

What about all of his pocket pairs? floats with a good ace? any pair on the board? gut shots? random junk in this depth etc? what about all his regular flush-draws? doesn't he have there more combos of this than Qx for example?

Thanks for comments guys. I didn't say I thought he is bluffing, I said that I felt stronger than his range. I think most of his Ax only flats flop, as most of his good aces 3bet me pre. It seemed to me that his raise OTF contained a lot of draws (a LOT), and so I thought that by check-shoving turn I still get plenty of value when he calls (and he calls good draws).

Didn't think that Ax is a big part of his range, felt to me that only A-two-pair is going for the raise OTF.

I can see reasoning to flatting turn, but I think he gives up river a lot there because I look like an Ace myself. Seems to me that when we just call turn we commit ourselves to calling a lot of rivers, that he shoves only when he has a made hand.

If he is floating with a good ace he is overdefending anyway. It's hard for me to explain when you don't seem to believe in maths ha.

Hey for your hand against Cada, why did you flat pre with JJ if your going to c/raise flop with an overcard and continue with an Ace on the turn.
Does he fold to 3-bets a lot?
Bc unless it's for pot control which it's obv not after seeing you bet flop and turn, I don't understand the logic behind the whole hand even though you def extracted the most value and that's the most important thing.
gl!

Though saying about the math, I just offered you wider ranges than what you think is happening... OBV that the ranges that plays vs me are prob wider than the once playing vs a tight CRser.

TX for the comment.

Had some reads that I'm not interested to share publicly, as it seems that Cada turns out to be a 500nl zoom grinder

Just seems that his ranges are somewhat wide and passive...

do you actually win at 500 zoom (graph, results?) cause no offense at all, but you seem to butcher an awful lot of hands

So far so good

After a long time I didn't play in the deep night time, came back today after a beer at the local pub, and had an urge to play some poker before going to sleep.

Had a crazy sess, with very agrro dinamycs vs plenty of regs, so much bizzare hands... 11 BI was the lot, will post 3 hands.



1. Vs the Baron, MP is a loose agrro fish.

PokerStars - $5 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Emilohlsson (BTN): $1,209.67 (VPIP: 26.50, PFR: 23.00, 3Bet Preflop: 15.56, Hands: 202)
kenchambon (SB): $527.50 (VPIP: 27.00, PFR: 21.29, 3Bet Preflop: 11.07, Hands: 1,440)
tombo_pl (BB): $613.51 (VPIP: 25.77, PFR: 20.96, 3Bet Preflop: 7.54, Hands: 2,528)
OtB_RedBaron (UTG): $955.65 (VPIP: 22.82, PFR: 17.57, 3Bet Preflop: 7.51, Hands: 1,048)
007Mango (MP): $526.53 (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
stasia42 (CO): $1,584.00

kenchambon posts SB $2.50, tombo_pl posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $7.50) stasia42 has K K

OtB_RedBaron raises to $12.20, 007Mango raises to $35.00, stasia42 calls $35.00, fold, fold, fold, OtB_RedBaron raises to $105.00, 007Mango calls $70.00, stasia42 raises to $275.00, OtB_RedBaron raises to $955.65 and is all-in, fold, stasia42 calls $680.65

Flop: ($2,023.80, 2 players) 3 3 2

Turn: ($2,023.80, 2 players) J

River: ($2,023.80, 2 players) K



--------------------------------------------

2. Vs quite an aggressive reg.

PokerStars - $5 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

stasia42 (BTN): $1,097.24
AlphaDonK2k9 (SB): $529.21 (VPIP: 22.49, PFR: 18.80, 3Bet Preflop: 10.68, Hands: 883)
LcikingLab14 (BB): $3,610.75 (VPIP: 24.67, PFR: 19.54, 3Bet Preflop: 8.97, Hands: 536)
pazzel1 (UTG): $223.81 (VPIP: 21.50, PFR: 14.95, 3Bet Preflop: 6.98, Hands: 112)
P@ULMORA$ (MP): $473.52 (VPIP: 20.91, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 11.63, Hands: 113)
viirusss (CO): $675.07 (VPIP: 30.85, PFR: 21.81, 3Bet Preflop: 6.76, Hands: 191)

AlphaDonK2k9 posts SB $2.50, LcikingLab14 posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $7.50) stasia42 has K 8

pazzel1 raises to $10.00, fold, viirusss calls $10.00, stasia42 calls $10.00, fold, fold

Flop: ($37.50, 3 players) 6 Q 6
pazzel1 checks, viirusss bets $25.00, stasia42 raises to $79.06, fold, viirusss calls $54.06

Turn: ($195.62, 2 players) 5
viirusss checks, stasia42 checks

River: ($195.62, 2 players) A
viirusss checks, stasia42 bets $132.83, viirusss raises to $586.01 and is all-in, stasia42 calls $453.18



--------------------------------------

3. Very weird spot vs a reg. After this hand INSTA sit-out

PokerStars - $5 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

cranck87 (BTN): $536.78 (VPIP: 22.38, PFR: 16.55, 3Bet Preflop: 8.68, Hands: 1,320)
stasia42 (SB): $2,350.58
Hookz (BB): $716.68 (VPIP: 20.36, PFR: 14.37, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 169)
ichtheking (UTG): $391.37 (VPIP: 43.48, PFR: 8.70, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 23)
feedmesvp (MP): $1,360.05 (VPIP: 23.52, PFR: 18.55, 3Bet Preflop: 7.28, Hands: 1,521)
TitoBroz (CO): $401.89 (VPIP: 18.65, PFR: 13.47, 3Bet Preflop: 9.20, Hands: 197)

stasia42 posts SB $2.50, Hookz posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $7.50) stasia42 has J J

fold, fold, fold, cranck87 raises to $11.25, stasia42 raises to $42.50, fold, cranck87 calls $31.25

Flop: ($90.00, 2 players) 8 9 3
stasia42 checks, cranck87 checks

Turn: ($90.00, 2 players) 5
stasia42 bets $59.78, cranck87 raises to $135.00, stasia42 raises to $2,308.08 and is all-in, cranck87 calls $359.28 and is all-in

River: ($1,078.56, 2 players) 8



----------------------------

As usual will be happy to hear some thoughts, again some non-standard lines here.

Why weird spot and why insta sit out? (Tilt?)
Are you not accustomed to see sets when you get called after the flop was raised?

Lifetime 500 zoom results? If you dont mind obviously.

Keep in mind flop was check-check on a very wet board..

Insta-sitout because it was a bit past my 2hour limit and because I have noticed that usually after 2 hours of playing straight, if I lose a hand it's often followed by losing more hands :}

Life time Graph at 500nl zoom (started playing it only from November 2012) :




Not running that good (11,000$ below EV = 22 BI), but can't really complain about runbad after Scoop score..

Effective = 2.5 bb/100 ; Expected 4.7 bb/100

All in all quite satisfied with my results so far, and planning to do a massive end-of-year grind after moving out from Tel-Aviv to the country side in about 2 weeks.

Nice hand in deep 3bet pot vs good reg.

PokerStars - $5 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

NosferatuMan (BTN): $1,128.97 (VPIP: 23.14, PFR: 18.90, 3Bet Preflop: 6.19, Hands: 260)
mynameiskarl (SB): $507.50 (VPIP: 22.14, PFR: 17.44, 3Bet Preflop: 7.59, Hands: 1,169)
OtB_RedBaron (BB): $1,602.05 (VPIP: 22.87, PFR: 17.64, 3Bet Preflop: 7.51, Hands: 1,050)
stasia42 (UTG): $1,177.18
STREWO (MP): $504.98 (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
007Mango (CO): $500.00 (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 12)

mynameiskarl posts SB $2.50, OtB_RedBaron posts BB $5.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $7.50) stasia42 has 9 A

stasia42 raises to $12.50, fold, fold, NosferatuMan raises to $40.00, fold, fold, stasia42 calls $27.50

Flop: ($87.50, 2 players) 4 6 7
stasia42 checks, NosferatuMan bets $42.50, stasia42 calls $42.50

Turn: ($172.50, 2 players) 7
stasia42 checks, NosferatuMan bets $85.00, stasia42 raises to $299.01, fold

Respect for results and for posting HHs with SNs. Obviously you're not playing anywhere near standardised in a lot of spots, but it seems to be working for you.

Gl

TY.

Just want to say that I'm not a grinder (as can be seen from my volume). I'm sure that if I was to play 50k hands a month, all these "leaks" would be well exploited by fellow regs, my lowish volume is prob what gets me safe

Grinding is boring, playing fun poker is awesome

Problem with this if he is an aggro fish is that he will have 67s and o, A7s and o, A6s and o, 54, 58, 77, 66, hell, even AJ and AT sometimes. I just think your general idea is good but in this texture is way better to call (imo). And if he is really aggro as you say you can check/call just fine I guess (or at least its better than raising)



KK Hand would definetly at least min 4 bet against the fish like 100% of the time, it looks equally strong as your flat to otb anyways

K8 Hand: kinda like actually, dont know exactly whats your plan by raising flop but I kindal ike mixing it up

JJ: if you were planing on craising the flop then I guess its okish, but cbeting is 500x times better, just no real reason at all to check flop

A9s: Just plain spew. awfull hand to call oop in that spot, one of the worst I could think of . Float flop is really bad aswell, craise turn even worse, spew ,spew

glgl Stasia

p.d: are you doing anything besides poker?

The check with JJ on 893s is certainly fine, wether to c/r or c/c and the ev between all options is definitely not going to be high enough to the extent were one is vastly superior compared to another. Some players bet most of their range when checked to in this spot, so there's obviously reasons to check.

stas, quick question. if you had to give a general range of statistics used by the general player pool at NL200 and 500 zoom, what would their vpip/pfr/3b/fold2cb be? not sure if im wording this well, but for example lets say at NL500 most good players have something like 22-26/18-22/6-11 etc. hope this makes sense

VS this guy I had some guess that he'll give up a lot on rivers, and didn't want to give free equity + being have to call certain river cards that complete him.

KK hand I think that there's a HUGE difference between flat calling the 3bet of the fish (looks strongish though we are somewhat deep and the main reason -

OTB cannot fold there almost nothing from his RFI range from that position, so in many cases we will see a 3way 3bet pot with a fish in the middle...

... and between cold 4betting the fish, scare off all of his AQo, which he can 5bet re-shove on OTB after he 4bets half of his range there,

And scaring of OTB, cause he's a semi-nit and would not want to get involved with a fish and myself in a spot like this with wide range.

K8 hand plan is to put pressure when I have the best position, adding chips to a pot where I have decent equity, and saying to yourself that if he check-shoves river I HAVE 2 fold, because it's always a full-house, and the he does JUST that and I'm like "fold, fold, fold", and I sit for a while longer and just call it after 10 seconds or so

JJ had the read about the guy that he will be aggrressive in this spot, read which I think was very correct as he cheked-back the nuts on a supr-wet flop in a 3bet pot, IP. [nasty line by all means]

A9s hand prefer not to comment in this forum, if you could read Hebrew then all my thought process is explained there, spew it is not

Yeah it makes total sense

I actually started my poker life as a "stats guy", so def have numbers for every question lined up my sleeve

I would say top-regs at 500nl play around 25-21 on average, sometimes 28-22 (esp when deepish and with lots of dynamics), and sometimes the standard 22-18 (when under attack or after tilt or whatever, just eating their sandwich and checking facebook or WE).

Few regs play tighter styles, like 18-15, and tons of semi-fish regs playing all around from 15-11, to 7-4.

At 200nl on the other hand, the absolute majority of the regs will not play above 24-20, and ussualy ~ 20-16 nittish. When they do play loose, it's mostly vs a fish, with position. I mean, they won't go to war vs the other regs...

I personally feel that this makes the lower fields harder in their own way (and was laughed about it a TON here...) , because people there may play "worse" poker, but their ranges are somewhat a lot tigher, which makes it hard to win with let's say, a 28-22 type of player who's costumed to face vs light cold-4bets.

Regarding 3bet ranges, though it can be understood also only from the vp-pfr, is around 9% I would say. somes play up to 13% (the aggro types), some play solid 7% with every now and then a"based on stats" 3bet in the right spot at the right time.

Fold to CB should be around 50% as u might imagine coming from a human population. some are less willing to give up, and reach 40% fold, but they pay for that in higher fold rates at the river, otherwise they're prob BE/losing players.

Actually from I see things, the top regs are the ones who generally "let go" easier, not sure if the fold to flop Cbet is the right stat for what I'm talking about, but that's what I think anyways,