geez man it's just a name for the challenge!

i don't actually think i'm the best/winningest poker player to ever play hands in the micros obv

i do think i have quite a big edge in the games, tho

yeah i don't doubt you may have an edge.

Well that is not really a flop that misses many of his hands and I have almost no equity

I did think it was a hand worth talking about however.

Jeezy Creezy man.

Lighten up a bit.

If he's not folding hands pre that hit 9Tx then why are 3betting pre? He's the 6max equivalent of 15 vpip.

62% f3b is getting close to breakeven on its own (Havent done the exact math in a while but I think its around 68% needed for auto profit). Most boards aren't as bad as T9xs so a 3bet -cbet will work often enough to show a profit.

If this was the type of guy to go to war with me with 4bets, or give me troubles postflop, I would probably agree that the 3bet is -ev. But if a 15 vpip in 6max is gonna ffold or flat OOP and then c/f most flops, I would still attack him with light 3bets. Wouldn't you?

His average f3b is 62%. That doesn't mean it's gonna be 62% vs you with an aggro image here. The players in the blinds are also 4betting you some % of the time. And if he has QJ or Tx in his preflop calling range he's effectively calling your 3b 100% here (idk what else you put in his range that makes you refrain from cbetting here). If your 3b is +EV it's not by much but it could be very -EV. Also by 3betting K5s here you're worsening your image and K5s is not the top of your folding range. There are better hands to 3b bluff with. So it's feasible to pass on a +EV opportunity to take a more +EV opportunity in the future instead.

Hey let's say villain folds to 3bets 80% of the time, should we be cbetting this flop? Just curious because I tend to think that when regs call 3bets out of position, they usually have like JJ-99 and AQ.

If he folds AQ and continues 99-JJ he's folding 16 combos and continuing 12. He only needs to fold 25% of the time for a half pot cbet to break even.

Right?

Right my bad. Not that it even slightly matters for this hand though

GC: You can't predict the future. You can't say "give up this +ev spot for a more possible +ev spot in the future" when you don't know if this +ev spot may cause an even more +ev spot (e.g. villain can tilt or adjust incorrectly against hero's ranges).

If the play of the 3bet (inc. future streets in the hand) is +ev, hero should do this every time.

Yeah you can. That's the entire premise of playing online poker. We know the statistical likelihood of future events and we factor them into every facet of our game. We don't go all in with AJ, because we know in the future we'll get some better hand. Certain parts of your range are used for one purpose, and another part of your range is used for a different purpose. It's all about knowing you'll encounter that other range of hands in the future.

Frequencies change what's +EV and -EV, because the more often you do something, generally, the less +EV similar situations become in the future. So you need to take frequencies into account when you're planning your overall poker game. When it comes to the hand, if he hadn't been 3 betting much prior then it's good, though he should cbet. That part of GCs message might have been obscured, but if you can't cbet on 9Tx then we should be 3 betting an entirely different set of hands here (mostly a wide value range, and Axs).

Both of these posts were very good.

Cool to have some 2p2 heavy-weights ITT.

Thanks for the responses guys.

so basically they are saying, that we cant 3b pre because we cant cbet this board. i.e, CO's 15% open is going to need to flat ~100% to ever have enough hands he continues with on this T9xtt, for our hpsb cbet to -EV?

so then our preflop 3b is -EV because he cant be folding often at all, given flop reasoning?

(lol head asplode)

Yea, that about sums it up.

k thanks

Challenge has been officially won by



Results have been verified with Sean. It took me 17k hands of nl50, and half my profits were rakeback. The final stage was kind of gross stretch of runbad combined with some spew, but I got there nonetheless.

Good game Sean.

We're going to keep this thread open for a while longer. We didn't end up releasing an nl50 video yet, and we are still going to do that in the next couple weeks. I'm personally going to grind out a bit more volume at this limit just to end on a more positive note. I will also try to post hands a bit more often, since I got pretty lazy about that as the challenge wore on. We still do have the matter of the hero call challenge.

speaking of hero call challenge

Everleaf $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 2 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN/SB): $88.77
BB: $66.93

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN/SB with 2 K
Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $4.50, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($9.00) 3 6 2 (2 players)
BB bets $9, Hero calls $9

Turn: ($27.00) 7 (2 players)
BB bets $14, Hero calls $14

River: ($55.00) J (2 players)
BB bets $39.43, Hero calls $39.43



hand is obv very non standard, i felt like i had some reads on the guy's tendencies and bet sizings

Graphs please!

Dan and I will put together some graphs and release them together in a day or 2.

---------------


WP Dan. Had a a lot of fun with this!

So how was the challenge won. Was it just first to hit the agreed level?

What about if Dan has played 2x the amount of hands Sean has(example), would Sean not get chance to get there inside Dan's # of hands played? Or have you both already played the same amount of hands in the challenge?

Here's the rules from OP. I would think with these move up rules that hands counts aren't a factor.


Rules:
- Each participant will play on Everleaf Network, to ensure the same game conditions and rakeback %.
- Each participant must start at 10nl.
- Participants can move up to 20nl when they have made $250 in profit at 10nl.
- Participants can move up to 50nl when they have made $500 in profit at 20nl. ($750 total)
- Participants can move up to 100nl when they have made $1000 in profit at 50nl. ($1750 total)
- USD and Euro tables will be considered the same stake (ie winning at 10nl USD and 10 euro tables both count towards the $250 10nl goal).
- Rakeback will be included in total profit.
- Only NLHE will count. HU, 4max, 6max and FR are all acceptable.



Congrats to the winner, was a fun thread to read tonight

Would seem unfair if 1 player has played lots more hands. Not saying either has. I guess you two wouldnt be out to cheat each other like that anyway.

Congratz Dan