They also bluff by min raising on turn cards that don't make sense and min raise flush/straight completing rivers or rivers that paired the board. I'm never sure what to do on those type of situations.

I've found when fish bluff raiseor min raise the turn, they usually hit either top pair or a weird two pair hand. I tend to call with my made hands and draws and play cautious on river.

Urban - Your thread inspired me to start my own as extra source of motivation as I grind back up to mid stakes from ssnl after w/d this summer. Play is on Bovada as well so I'll share some similar insiights on the games there. Feel free to follow along.



http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...onman-1481382/

on the river a minraise is never a bluff, no one minraise the river as a bluff. On the turn it could be a bluff but it doesn't happen that often but you could always call and see what happens on the river, if he has a strong hand he will bet again on the river and you can fold safely.

And like I said if you're facing aggressive opponent, bet less and check more often.

It's pretty tough to know your opponent when it's zone on bovada without HUD's, that's the appeal of it.

I think getting used to the zone no HUD games can only be a positive going forward. US could easily have some of the bigger regulated sites (just like Bovada) that won't allow HUD's and all the guys who have to have them will be at a disadvantage when the next wave hits.

I think fish will always prefer the sites without HUD's since a lot of them don't use them. If a fish had the choice of a site that markets for "the grinder" and one that markets anonymous games which do you think he will choose most of the time?

Finished down a hundo last night. It was a moral victory though in that I started down a few buyins almost immediately due to suckouts or coolers.

It looks like Bovada just enabled the ability to play regular cash games on your phone now. There is absolutely no one on Zone right now at either 1/2 or .50/1 during my lunch break. Hope that is just bc of the new update and not a trend going forward. One good thing about enabling regular cash games on the phone is it will attract more fish and more people without HUD's.

I definitely play a LAG style in Zone and even play more loose and aggressive bc of the lack of HUD.

I have picked up on several overall tendencies so far and have tips on how to beat it but I don't offer those for free 😄. Zone definitely has some different dynamics than regular cash games that's for sure.

PM me if you're interested in some coaching. Also, now that I have my new laptop, I'm planning on recording some training videos soon. Will offer some of the micro stakes for free and maybe a couple minutes of free previews of the stakes I play. The rest will be on a subscription basis. For those that get in on the ground floor, I will be taking requests of what types of videos you would like to see more of (sweat sessions w live commentary, classroom concepts, etc.). Anyone who is interested in that PM me with your email and I will let you know as soon as it is up and running.

A lot of this depends on which stake you are talking about. At my stake, I have seen some plays to the contrary of each of those. This is why I stress it is so important to know the general tendencies of your opponents. Especially on zone but also in regular cash games. What one thing usually means at say .25/50 can mean the exact opposite at 1/2.

I definitely take both standard and non-standard lines on Zone. It depends on the situation, the opponent (yes u can get some information on an opponent even without any session stats on a HUD), and then based on some general tendencies I have noticed.

Hey urbansurfer, what app are you using to track your winnings?

Those are very situation dependent. There's not going to be a set plan of how to approach them each time. What I would recommend to get more comfortable with those situations is to do some hand history reviews of those specific hands with a coach or with another poker player friend whose game you respect and who is more comfortable in those types of situations.

There are going to be times where you have to call a min raise on the river when you're pretty sure you're beat (i.e. if you under-represented your hand early on and there's a chance the villain doesn't consider what you have to even be a part of your range). There are a lot of other examples and things to consider as well.

Good to hear! Will subscribe and follow for sure. GL

Sounds like a comment from 2008

whales will min raise the river very frequently with crap

the turn rarely.

You could probably raise 50% of hands UTG in zone and make a very large profit from the fold equity/perceived range

get your stats up to 45/40

It's called Poker Income on the Apple marketplace. It's about $10. They also have it on Android and the name is pretty similar. I'm probably going to stop using it at the end of this year now that I have HEM working again since HEM doesn't require any manual entry. But I might possibly keep using it as a contingency in case my HEM goes down at any point.

Update?

Volunteered at State Fair last night w my work so didn't put any hands in.

Played just about an hour the night before and finished up about $150.

Spent time looking for free or at least cheaper alternatives to camtasia video capture software but everything I've tried so far either doesn't allow you to record over 10 min or had audio quality issues. I'm probably going to just do the thirty day free trial and may have to fork over the $300 if I don't find an alternative before it is up.

Uploaded first training video to YouTube. It's just a preview so it's only 17 minutes long with some intro of my background. Would like any feedback. Just a heads up that the audio quality of the mic I used isn't the greatest. So that's first on my list to do.

Here's the link to the video. It's public so anyone can search for it and view it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B49WWu_AJc8

I'm really not convinced with the free sample, raising with T3, Q4, etc. and especially not cbetting with Q4 vs 2 players there is a crime against humanity. Last hand before I closed the video was defending the blinds with A3...

timing out on 99 and hitting set tilt you at all?

thats the whole point of playing on bovada, you dont need to play anywhere near perfect to do good. Just play better than a nl2 cent grinder on stars and you're on your way to winning at 400.

But as far as your ideas of his plays being bad, id say you're in the wrong.

Q4 there is ****. So many ****ty turn cards. Protecting against 2 players with an horrible kicker is just lighting money on fire. You have 1 or 2 bets with this hands depending on future cards and taking the cautious road on the flop will maximize this. With all those draws you cant fold to a river bet so by betting the flop you put yourself in a ****ty spot where you might be having 3 streets of action when you dont want to. Then again this isnt something most bodog regs will be familiar with seeing as its 6 years behind and most of them cbet 75%+(other site good regs are in the 30-55% range)

and wow you get mad at someone defending a button open with a3o? It does not get more GTO than this. If theres something ive learned from the bots that make millions is that defending any Ax vs steals is massively profitable. You could argue that the trend of defending K3s and other similar hand is badish for most player but an ace high or TP is very easy to play.
What you should of said is the a3 was played the exact way a fish plays it. "half pot to make him think" and "full pot to look bluffy" is EXACTLY the line that fish take day in and out with similar hands. Its funny because it makes no sense, people fold rivers and people call turns so the sizing makes no sense

Appreciate the feedback. Would you mind explaining why you disagree with how I played each of those hands?

Tilt? No. Bother me for a second?Yeah. The main tilt struggle I have is when I misplay a hand in a large pot. Suckouts and coolers and random things like the timeout, temporarily losing connectivity to the site, etc. are annoying for a moment but I can't help or control those things so I can shrug them off pretty quickly.

Agree with pretty much everything you said except the last part about the line/sizing on the A3 hand. If I check again on turn there is a strong chance he checks a lot of his hands back there even too pairs with weak kickers like he ended up having. So I can't really go for a check raise. Even if I did opt for that I think I blow him off the hand if he does fire again on the turn. I don't really like to check/call the turn either and give him free opportunity to draw to flush, straight, or some sort of other hand with back door equity. Plus it caps what I can make on the hand in that I will never be able to get it in versus hands I have crushed like tp/gk or combo draw hands. So I lead out to get value from hands that I beat which is pretty much most of his range and also to charge his hands that have equity that he will continue with and that he might check behind with that if he gets there on the river I might have a hard time folding to a raise when I lead out in most rivers.

As for the turn sizing, the reason why I bet half pot is bc I see fish take this line with weakish made hands all the time to "find out where they are at" and then fold to a raise. Since I thought there was a decent chance the villain was a thinking player who might draw that conclusion and then raise with any of the air in his range and also all of his top pair value range that I beat (and maybe also turn some weaker made hands into bluffs) and maybe also try to play his draws fast bc he thinks he has decent fold equity bc of the sizing.

After I am just called, I narrow my opponents range to mainly top pair hands and some draws/combos. When the 8 comes on the river. That looks really safe for someone to bluff at if they missed a flush/straight/combo draw and that most top pairs would try to snap off. Sizing it close to full pot really should polarize my range in their eyes and further sell the story that I missed my draw and want them to fold. Also from their standpoint it doesn't look like there is much in my perceived range that I am repping. Flopped sets don't really play this way. So it looks like the only hand I could have here in my value range is either A3 or maybe a set of 3's.