Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGodson
I'm not sure why some people were ripping on the 3-bet chart. I tend to 3-bet a bit tighter than the chart given, but it is a fairly good standard 3-betting range imo. When choosing hands to 3-bet bluff, it doesn't really matter what the hand is as much as the frequency as long as it has some play-ability. The problem with 3-betting KTo is you are probably 3-betting QJo, then A8o, and on and on until you are just 3-betting too much.
KTs should be a fold to the limp/raise as a standard. Given the way your opponent played, it could make it profitable. I've noticed a trend with recreational players limp/raising a lot more garbage, because they think everyone will put them on a premium hand.
A8s, I like check/raise all-in on flop better. As played, probably a fold to the raise, because you shouldn't have any fold equity with the sizing he chose. I think you lucked out that he had ****, most of the time they are going to have it or at least have enough equity to call it off. I mean, it's pretty hard to not have 19% equity on that flop.
QQ, I think you should call. River donk can sometimes be a player who knows their hand is too weak to bluff catch but also knows he doesn't have the discipline to fold so he ends up shoving it himself. It can also be a busted draw that has no other hope of winning. When facing a donk shove you can call a bit looser than the hands you would have been willing to shove yourself had he checked.
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Most of what you said seems reasonable, but I strongly disagree with the part that I put in bold red.
When checked to, we have a fistpump value jam with QQ here. Even a hand like TPGK is usually good enough to go for 3 streets of value against a fish with when they x/c flop, x/c turn and x river.
But when we face a river donk bet, they're going to have 2pr+ a huge portion of the time. River donks are very different to flop donks. A flop donk bet is usually weak, but a river donk bet, after a x/c on flop and x/c on turn, is usually 2pr+, especially when it's a large sizing like pot (or an overbet in this case).
I've made some pretty big laydowns in the past against river donk bets. One time, playing live 1/3 NL against an old man, I flopped a set on a rainbow disconnected board, went for 2 streets of value, faced a pot sized river donk bet after the bdfd got there and I made the laydown. He showed me that he flopped top pair and got runner runner flush. I was super proud of that fold because I'm sure 99% of regs would've paid him off there.
I think that these spots are what separate the good players from the great players. Because the great players know how to make huge laydowns exploitatively, instead of just saying "this is a super standard call" and then "oh well, just a cooler" afterwards.
Now, it's possible that I'm wrong on this particular case. It's possible he took this line with a busted straight draw, in an attempt to bluff me off an overpair. But I think it's quite unlikely. I also think it's unlikely that he would overbet jam a hand with showdown value. Sometimes it happens, sometimes people spazz for no reason, but not often enough to make calling the overbet jam +EV imo.