I could use a good story and laugh!

MOAR

+1

Hi LotGrinder,

I was reading through the forums, and came across a thread , on the topic of playing $1/$2 vs $2/$5 NL Live

I live near Tunica, and there is always the $1/$3 NL games going 24/7
And the $2/$5 is only offered on the weekend ( and some evenings ) I believe

I wanted to please ask you .....

1. What size bankroll would you recommend for each of the two games ?
20 x Max buyin?

2. I currently have $1,500 saved up, solely for playing Live,
So I am " Half way " rolled for the $1/$3

Have you noticed a big difference in the quality and skill level of the players at the $2/$5 vs the $1/$2 and $1/$3 games ?

And I am going to go full force at trying to grind at these stake levels, and was wondering if you had any specific advice ?
I greatly appreciate it

Thanks for your time and help.

First of all, sorry it took me so long to get back to you. I don't log into my account every day and sometimes when I do it's only to update my thread in the staking forum as I have an ongoing "The People's Bankroll" thing over there where I plan to eventually win a big tournament someday. Hopefully, that happens sooner than later.

Now onto answering your questions....

1.

For $1/$3 NLHE I'd say the bare minimum to attempt to play that game for a living would be $4,000.00.

That gives you twenty buy-ins of $200 and you'd proceed to play your 66 big blinds like a NIT from every position but HJ and CO until you've worked your stack to over 100 big blinds. After that, you'd be able to open up a little more depending on table conditions and I'd be looking cash out as soon as I got my stack over $600 to secure winning sessions, build the roll, and build your confidence as the amount of green in your sessions log multiplies.

I would not play any $2/$5 until you've played at least 500-1000 hours of $1/$3 NLHE and have over a $30 a hour win rate.

I'd want at least $10,000 to attempt $2/$5 and I'd only buy in for 80bb each time (and repeat process above) until you really feel you had a handle on the game.

I don't care what any online goober ****stains say about "omg you need at least so n so many hands before you can decide if you're going to be a winning player or not"...if I could watch you play for all 500 hours of your first 500 hours I'd be able to tell if you're going to be a winner or not at $1/$3 or $2/$5.

Even though my win rate for my first 500 hours of $2/$5 was only around $20. I always knew I had what it takes to beat the level I was just going to have to keep working on my game, working on controlling my emotions, and working on learning the player pool so I could table select/game manage better.

2.

The $2/$5 players are going to try to bluff you more, apply pressure more, float more, play against your range more, 3-bet light more, and you're just going to encounter more sophisticated players in general more.

However, this is where table selection/game managing skills becomes more important. You'll also want to learn how to keep your ego in check. Sure, you may want to test your skills against these sophisticated players and see what you really have. But, you can also always make sure to table change away from them or just not get involved in any big pots with them. Check down more with them. Etc. When you're in bankroll building/learnig the level mode there is nothing wrong with focusing on the fish and making sure to only play against them. One piece of advice I'd give you for the $2/$5 NLHE level is TO NOT GIVE YOUR OPPONENTS TOO MUCH CREDIT AS TO BEING SOPHISTICATED.

Like, at $1/$2, $1/$3 when someone puts a check raise or re-raise on you on the flop and the villian seems to be unsophisticated...you can bet 90%+ of the time he has your overpair beat. At $2/$5 it might not be 90%+ of the time. But, it's still like 80%+ of the time. Also, at $1/$2, $1/$3 when someone puts a check raise or re-raise on you on the turn like 100% of the time it's the nuts or near nuts and you can be sure you're beat. At $2/$5 it's still going to be like 95%+ of the time. So, don't think all of a sudden since you're moving up everybody is trying to put moves on you. The truth is they're not.

One other thing I'd like to note is that at $1/$2 and $1/$3 we make the bulk of our win rate from extracting value from weak passive fish.

At $2/$5 we still make the bulk of our win rate that way. But, there WILL BE MUCH MORE OPPORTUNITY to make money from people who are bad aggressive fish. There's more of them in the player pool. They'll be more opportunities to check to someone who we know who has missed a flush and they will spazz bluff because they sense weakness where when we check to someone we know who missed a flush at $1/$2 and $1/$3 they will just give up like Dwight Howard in a NBA playoff game when his toe hurts.

Hope you have found this post helpful.

Sup Mang? when you draggin yer ass out to Vegas?

In late May or early June.

Lets have a beer or protein shake.

So, I been thinking about writing a book that strictly focuses on beating $1/$2 NLHE and $2/$5 NLHE in my own unique style.

Basically, a book that will influence the average person who hates their job, wife, kids, or life in general to save up (or do whatever it takes to get) $4,000 and give playing poker for a living a try if they consider themselves to be somewhat of a decent player/coachable player.

A book that I would never want to be commercial or sold in stores as I'll be sure to use the words like fukk, nggr, ****, fgt, etc within the first couple pages.

But, a book that will go down as somewhat of a holy grail in the brick and mortar low level cash games community because it will be written by someone who actually plays at those levels, is in tune with the game/player types that play as those levels, and built his poker career from succeeding at those levels without ever winning a donkament.

Sort of what Prince's "Black Album" is to Prince fans.

Sort of like learning Holden Caulfield grew up to play poker.

I'd be relying on you all's good word to get it out there and it would be sold in .PDF format with links to a lot of cool stuff/etc....

Just kind of brainstorming at this point.

But, a books coming.

Sounds like a plan my man - keep crushing!!

Introduction
Bankroll Management
Table Selection
Buy In Amount
65bb Strategy
100bb Strategy
150bb + Strategy
Player Types/Tendencies
Seat Selection
Hand Selection
Position
Opponents limp ranges
Opponents limp/call ranges
Our Raising Range and Raise sizing.
Opponents 3betting ranges.
Our 3bet calling strategy
Our 3betting strategy
Flop Play/Strategy
Turn Play/Strategy
River Play/Strategy
Common Post Flop Betting Lines
Betting for value.
Betting for deception.
Double Barreling/Triple Barreling
Stealing From Blinds
Floating
Image
A Game/B Game/C Game
When To Cash Out
Hourly Win Rates
Volume Requirements
Controlling Tilt/Emotions/Mental Game
Downswings
Studying/Working To Improve Your Game


Feel free to let me know if I am missing any important concepts to explore that an aspiring live cash game grinder looking to take a $5,000.00 bankroll and build it into $25,000.00 via $1/$2-$2/$5 NLHE over the course of a couple years.

What I want to write will be advice focused solely to those playing at these levels and looking to build the roll at these levels with no shot taking at $5/$10+ as I don't give a fukk about advice catered to those levels. The market I want to capture is those that aspire to go pro via live $1/$2 and $2/$5 NLHE or those that aspire just to be a winner at those levels.

Also, considering crowd funding possibly.

People could contribute $25-$100 depending on how much value they think my posts have been worth over the years on various forums I've frequented.

Don't worry Pocket Fives, 2+2, etc.... you'll be repped and repped hard throughout the book.

If you review all my posts I never fail to rep my city, my music heros, my political heros, my favorite authors, all the way up to the most important person in my life...Grandma Marge.

Without online poker forums I'm still grinding 60 hour work weeks at an auto dealership hating my life.

I know that.

That's all for now.

Be back with an "E.S.B.T.S." encore soon.

taking your time out to reply to my message, and for such a thorough reply.... I really appreciate that .

I am about to have to head into work, but I will for sure reply back tonight with a more thorough message, as I wanted to run by you a few more questions if you didn't mind, and hopefully start getting out there and grinding away at the Live tables down here in Tunica

Thanks so much, will write more later - Michael

The aspect of why so many fail and how to avoid those pitfalls should be a largeish section of your book

you ****s better inv me! i could see v entertaining convos/things happening from hanging out w/you two =)

sounds like a plan mang!

I wanted to ask you a few things please, regarding playing / grinding the $1/$3 and the $2/$5 NL Live games.....

1. With regards to the $1/$3 game ..... I'm a bit far off as far as the $4,000 that's needed to play at these stakes , to give myself a fighting chance / a very low risk of ruin

I have right at $2,000 saved right now, and was wondering..... Would it even be recommended to attempt playing $1/$3 , if I just bought in for $100 each game ( $100 is the minimum buy-in )?
I know that I'll be at a disadvantage buying in for $100, as it will decrease my leverage to.... double up and win big , when I call someone's shove and I have the nuts


2. I like the idea of cashing out , as soon as I get my stack to over $600 , as a way to lock in those profits.... pocket $400 and then buy back in with the original $200
Great idea

3. As far as knowing your win rate playing live ( trying to hit an average the $30 per hr. mark ), is there a way you recommended doing this for Live play..... use an app on your phone ?
Or is there an equation that we plug the numbers from each session into and it calculates out what are win rate is for each session and then just divide those totals out on a per month basis ?


4. Table selecting and sitting at tables with a good majority of fish / loose passive players definitely makes a lot of sense.
I'm guessing that to know this .... I need to play down there regular, and keep an eye on who the regulars are and what type of players they are ( loose Passive ), and then try my best to sit to their right

5. Thank you for the insight into the transition from playing $1/$3 to the $2/$5 stakes and that the players there aren't to much " better " , but that they will attempt to bluff at you more and apply pressure

6. And thank you for the tip for when an opponent check-raises or re-raises me on the Turn , that nearly every time it's the nuts / Near nuts that they'll have.... this is great information to know, is it can really help on making the decision on the Turn when their raising or re-raising me

7. You mentioned that most of the money we will make, is from the weak passive fish , as well as from the bad aggressive fish..... When playing Live and trying to put an image of play on my opponents ( regulars ), are there any specific things that you look for to decipher between who's passive and who's aggressive?

__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _

Again, sorry it took me ten days to respond to this. But, I went on a little vacation w a girl I been dating to visit my Mother, been getting no handed blowjobs on the daily, and visiting Grandma Marge a lot. Not really been putting in the volume I should. However, that's going to change soon with the WSOP coming up.

Anyway, onto answering your questions....

1. If you already have $2,000. Get to $3,000 any way you can. That would give you 15 buy-ins of $200. Even if you have to fly to Las Vegas for a couple days and let tourists kick you in the nuts for $20 a pop. Do it. A 15 buy-in bankroll is enough to give you a fighting chance. Sucks you can't find a $1/$2 game to get your feet wet, though.

How much experience do you have a live NLHE poker by the way?

2. If your bankroll is only 2k or 3k, you may want to cash out at $500+ to build the roll. The lower your bankroll, the lower the number you should cash out at to lock in wins. Also, remember if you are sitting with $550 and everyone else at the table is sitting with $50-$150 you DO NOT have to cash out right there if you have no real threat in front of you to break you. NO RULE IS SET IN STONE. You may have $550 and a nit have $500. But, the rest of the table is complete droolers with $100-$200. Sit and keep pounding on the droolers. You know the NIT is not going to bet big against you unless he has it. Don't leave A+ table conditions just to lock in wins. Be selective when you do it.

3. Get an AP for your phone. DO NOT become obsessed with win rate. When building your roll become obsessed with continually making the best poker decisions for you and your roll. Like, some might tell you 4bet jamming AK for $200 vs a guy who just 3bet your $15 open to $45 is a standard play. But, it's actually not when building a roll. It's downrite idiotic to give someone a 50/50 at like 10% of your roll if you are going to start with 2k and do 10 $200 buy ins. Sure, that might be standard if your roll is infinity. But, it is a travesty to just jam in on coinflips when bankroll building. You should be constantly getting your money in as a 65%+ favorite. The spots will be there. Just wait for them. Worry about making the best poker decisions in every hand. Or sometimes the best poker decision may be required to be made in a hand at all. Sometimes the best poker decision is simply not to play if the table is full of all solid players and nit. I promise that if you are continually making solid decisions on the felt and off the felt the win rate will take care of itself.

4. When building the roll focus on getting the loose passive players to your right. The nits to your left. That way you get 2-3 buttons if you want them. Playing against loose passive players is the easiest way to build a roll with minimal variance. Sometimes you can win a lot more playing against aggro spazzoids. But, they'll put you to more of a test more often. Would you rather fistfight a nerd with no confidence who is just going to lie down and let you pummel him or would you rather fight someone who is going to completely spazz out and be unpredictable?

5. and 6. You're welcome.

7. You just need to pay attention at the table. If you feel a player is sophisticated, capable of floating, bluffing, repping big hands on scary boards, etc....YOU NEED TO WATCH HIM LIKE A HAWK. Make sure you look at his cards every time he turns them over. But, also don't have giraffe neck and make it obvious you are looking at his cards or he may use your curiousity against you by overbetting the $hit out of a value hand against you because he knows you are suspicious of him being a bluffer. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU DO NOT BE THE FIRST TO PLAY SHERIFF. If you see him getting lucky on a float or getting lucky on a turn bluff where he catches a miracle card on river, etc you NOW HAVE PROOF he is capable of making aggressive plays and you can take him out of ABC loose passive fish category. Sure, you're going to see some players essentially owning the table. You're going to be suspicious of them. But, when building your roll do not look to start banging heads with competent/sophisticated players and looking for spots to hero call. Focus on making BIG HANDS and extracting BIG VALUE from your inferior opponents. You aren't trying to be a $25+ player at $1/$2 or $35+ player at $1/$3 in your first few months. You should be trying to win $15-$20 a hour and learning the player pool, learning to control your emotions, learning to avoid tilt, learning to realize when you're shifting down into your B+C games, learning how to table select, learning how not to get lazy on asking for strategic seat changes, learning to keep your ego in check when you're running good and not buy in for $300 (stick to the plan), learning to pick up when you're $400 down and just feeling kind of defeated for the day, etc.....

Feel free to write me with any more questions or if anyone reading from the forum has questions post them here. I'll do my best to answer them.

-LG

Have you heard from dgi?

No.

Anyone else got an update on him?

That thread turned into a fiasco.

I think DGI should come back and open his thread with....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_mvIQPcdbc

I was a fool to ever leave your side
Me minus 2+2 is such a lonely ride
The breakup we had has made me lonesome and sad
I realize I love you 'cause I want you bad, hey, hey

I spent the evening with the radio
Regret the moment that I let you go
Our quarrel was such a way of learnin' so much
I know now that I love you 'cause I need your touch, hey, hey

Reunited and it feels so good
Reunited 'cause we understood
There's one perfect fit
And, sugar, this one is it
We both are so excited 'cause we're reunited, hey, hey

I sat here starin' at the same old wall
Came back to life just when I got your call
I wished I could climb right through the telephone line
And give you what you want so you will still be mine, hey, hey

I can't go cheatin', honey, I can't play
I found it very hard to stay away
As we reminisce on precious moments like this
I'm glad we're back together 'cause I missed your kiss, hey, hey

Reunited and it feels so good
Reunited 'cause we understood
There's one perfect fit
And, sugar, this one is it
We both are so excited 'cause we're reunited, hey, hey

I got an email from DGI on 4/24 giving some insight to what is going on...can forward to you if you like.

Here's your encore with a staking opportunity....

sooo doesnt a 4 make a straight?

If you were a fan of this thread you'll also be a fan of my new thread that I have in the marketplace forum.

You can check it out here.

I'll be updating there all the way up to and all the way through The World Series of Poker.

Hey guys, I am back, and attempting to journal and play my way in to The World Series of Poker Main Event this year. The core of my writing this time around is back where it used to be, more story telling oriented and less talk on strategy. I think you'll enjoy it.