Literally just had same ****
Also day off
Great for mental game

swings gunna swing

I saw you mention that you're going to work on dealing with negative variance - what are your kind of ways to go about that? The reason i ask is because airing some of that process here may well be helpful in shifting the way you manage swings.

gl on the regrind!

I thought about being a police detective fairly seriously at one point before poker took off.

Do you mind talking about that? What the process was like, how long it took, and did you like it? Positives/negatives? Was there a shitload of bureaucracy? Where were you anyways?

Sorry for all the questions, no worries if you don’t want to answer

GL will follow

My opinion here - posting daily graphs and updated monthly/ yearly graphs every day is extremely bad for mental game.

Obviously it's good for building a following, so if that's what your optimising for (eg in Rich's case with twitch), worth doing.

But if you are trying to play poker professionally and not lose your mind, you have to fight your monkey brain which will always want to believe you have control over what happens on a week to week, day to day basis. Looking at and engaging with the daily swings enables that section of your brain in my opinion.

The rational side of you is much weaker than the monkey mind, so it needs all the help it can get. For me sweating daily results/ updating year and month graphs just results in a toxic/ irrational mentality fairly quickly.

So true I was only just discussing this with someone. What are good strategies to avoid looking at results? What do you do George?

Really good post G, mind if I steal it for my PGC? been having similar thoughts lately

This is a super interesting topic and one I've been thinking and writing about. I can definitely see some merit in what you're saying G but wanted to give my 2 cents.

What you're basically alluding to is conscious suppression, which while potentially beneficial in the short-term, and perhaps even in the long-term, raises a myriad of other potential dilemmas.

The main implication is by burying the problem as if it doesn't exist, it will invariably compound and rear its head in other ways. There is an abundance of evidence to suggest that pushing feelings down and away rather than letting them surface and be processed has negative implications on health, productivity and relationships, both internally with yourself and externally with others.

For me, being interested and curious in the "what's" and "why's" (which is why i asked morris how he goes about dealing with the mental game stuff) regarding the felt experience (connecting to my own monkey brain) when checking results/downswinging/upswinging has been really fruitful, as opposed to taking the route of cutting myself off from the arising feeling.

I know that this perspective isn't seen as the highest ev in the poker world, but it's definitely something I believe in. Also, this probably sounds a little extreme, particularly given we're talking about something as menial as checking results but hopefully you get my drift!

Lastly re: the monkey brain. Why must is always prevail over the rational brain? The very reason society works is because we are in control (for the most part) of our impulses.

Lastly lastly, there really are no easy fixes. Whether it's not looking at your results or looking at your results. Checking them weekly, monthly, yearly. Turning off the EV line. Deleting samples. These are ALL as significant mental game leaks as any other and the only way to overcome them is to actually engage with them imo!

There is always an underlying issue waiting to rear it’s ugly head when it comes to tilt but what do you suggest to do in order to repair this leak? (Asking for free mental game coaching here hahahahaha)

Some thoughts that I know I suffer from especially when running well and I’m sure others have consistent issues that are similar

Wanting to win each session
Will grind longer to book a win
Feeling of playing badly when losing even though we understand it’s not in our control
The link between losing means we make mistakes but still doesn’t totally accept it can be variance
Understand variance is huge but losing 20bi still makes you feel crap
Subtle winners tilt
Obsessing with green sessions in hm2
Entitlement tilt when all in w more equity than opponent
Frustration
Distractions when grinding
The feeling of it’s my time to win when we know poker has no memory

These all may sound silly however I think they are the root cause of many players tilt and managing them helps tremendously. Sorry to clog up thread but hoping Ben can shed light on this which can help us all.

Max, i can relate to all those issues apart from the last about feeling like its your time to win haha. Awaiting Ben's response to this! thanks Morris for letting us spam here

I think many of us love the competitive aspect and losing simply makes us feel uneasy in general, what kind of helps me is not viewing money as money but as simply a number or a random item.

Great insights G and Ben. You highlight some very good points about letting feelings come up and be as its widely said thats it one of the best ways to not let them feel overwelmed.

Personally, I have tried both aproaches, and have found myself get increasingly anxious when I dont check results and I start getting bashed in a session. Sometimes, a -5bi session felt like a -10bi bc I couldnt win a single hand but realistically it wasnt that bad.

I think both approaches definately have their merit and its more about finding out what works for you personally and maybe find a balance.

cool discussion, in some ways nice to see even the more well established and experienced players are feeling the same things as I do. Thanks to all for sharing their opinions/thoughts on the topic

Sick discussion guys.

As someone with a vested interest in Steve I'm very conscious about this.

Stave initially wanted to do the blog as a way of keeping himself accountable, I think mainly for volume and to be more professional in general. Honestly it was really nice to see how many comments there were when he had his first mini downswing of people saying chin up and it happens. There does seems to be a lot more positivity in the 2p2 threads in general which is great.

As to what G said I agree posting each day could be a drain, but also as to what Ben said if he pushes through that drain and come out the other side you jay could yield even higher mental toughness. I'm hoping when the draining side becomes a factor I can be there to offer support and help him see that it is just a game and we are all monkies, but ultimately that will be the test for Steve.

Yeah these are really good examples, and by no means are they silly (this is definitely the monkey brain that george mentioned before).

Ultimately, beneath every single one of those 'leaks' you mentioned is a feeling. Whether that feeling is disappointment, sadness, frustration, anger. Or even holding onto positive feelings like joy, contentedness, pride. The list is endless.

But under those 'umbrella' feelings, are even deeper ones - inadequacy, fear, vulnerability just to name a few. These are the parts that I personally feel are the most important aspects to sit with and give them space to breathe, not push them away.

This is why i wanna challenge when people say stuff like 'yeah i've worked loads on my mental game and i have come to X or Y conclusion' (which is invariably something like not checking their results or having repetitive conversations about how variance is sicker than anyone imagines etc etc). Ordinarily, 'mental game realisations' occur when the downswing is over too, which is probably a pretty strong reflection of results-oriented thinking. Obviously, as i said before, active changes like not checking results can help in the short term, but i am a strong believer that they will not be a permanent fix - usually demonstrated in the very same feelings occurring in the next downswing.

It's really up to the individual as to what they want to do - for some, the active choices are enough to get by. For others, these leaks may reach a make or break point and they decide to delve deeper into understanding their leaks (not just cognitively, but on a sensory level), as to the what's and why's that i mentioned in the previous post. I think it's fair to say that there is no right or wrong way of doing it. It's cool people are engaging with it too! Sorry for derail too morris, I'll stop now.

glgl

Thanks man

Thanks man and not really a thread where I share to many HHs to be fair and the $500 swing at end of session hands are just bad beats.. AK all in pre for one and the other hand was I 4b A5cc, flop 74Jccc, CB 1/4 and he goes all in for a lot with 74s and turns a boat lol

Cheers bro

Yeah thanks man... day off did me worlds of good. I usually struggle to go whole day without playing but enjoyed the Football Manager grind! Ha

I will be honest mate, I don't really have a set way to deal with it. I used to meditate before sessions when I played tournaments but I use the app for sleep meditation now more than anything.

I think I might try going back into meditating each day and sticking to structure. I find that really helps me and especially when I do some kind of gym work but recently the motivation to do that has lacked which is me falling back into old mindset pre weight loss.

With poker, I have also been very emotional with it and lets say, entitlement tilt. I have got way way better with that and I care way less the more and more cash I have played. I think this is probably the underlying mental game leak I have and I am at very least aware of it but yet to 100% control it.

It was great fun mate and a small % of me misses certain aspects of it. Like interviewing suspects was amazing. Problem for me personally is that I worked on Domestic Abuse. You see and meet some pretty shitty people and its physically draining and massively understaffed.

I mean workloads just wasn't manageable and I could of manufactured my way off the team but I would of needed to do a lot of work outside of work hours and I always had this burning desire to try poker so I didn't have that time.

I would of always loved to work on Economic Crime, Counter Terrorism or Organised Crime Unit.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...-124k-13743277

That was probably one of the most interesting cases I managed and I was a probationer then. All excited and enthusiastic haha

Appreciate your thoughts man.

It's something which I have never really thought about. The idea of a blog gave me more accountability and it definitely has given me that. Not so much from a results side of things but just playing more volume. Swings will come and go for sure, but its just volume when you beat a stake level.

Rich said to me before, like it doesn't matter what your graph line does in between, its going to go up and going to go down, it matters what it is at the end of the graph which I really liked.

Obviously this is within reason but it really helped the volume side sink in.

As for posting results, I may well try and do it on a weekly basis and maybe even a monthly basis. Obviously results since I started the blog have been really good but I definitely did not want to be the guy that randomly stopped posting because of a downswing.

You have to take the good with the bad.

Really like the things you talk about with the monkey brain too, this really is true and its trying to find a way to be in as much control of that at any one time.

Appreciate the post bro

I have basically highlighted in bold the ones that I think I struggle with most and I all think it comes back to entitlement.

imo I think you have to have an ego in the profession we choose because its a competitive and you want to win. But its about controlling that ego and not letting it spill to entitlement.

And when it does spill to entitlement be aware of it and have a break rather than chase and inevitable make mistakes.

Can defo relate to a lot of these mate

Yeah I think good way is to look at it in buy ins. Which I defo don't do enough.

The not winning a single hand session sticks with me more than anything because you're like what can I do.

Yeah super interesting topic and glad it picked up some traction

My G! Can't wait to come and annoy your next gym session haha!

This post really hit home in terms of behind every one of those leaks there is a feeling.

If you have any suggestions/advice on how best to deal with, would be appreciated.

Also not a derail, glad it actually generated some traction without me even been aware there was any posts because I didn't get any notifications.

Just reading through some of the discussions I feel more aware of certain things and that in itself has helped so I appreciate it

Poker emphasizes the need for survival which then gives us all these irrational behaviours trying to make us feel secure. We are constantly worrying, checking results, semi-tilting while trying to do our best in an environment of chaos.

The contrast to this behaviour is meditation. Doing nothing. Not trying to survive, but just connecting to the stillness inside us.

Hey Steve do you know how to multiquote? Could be easier.

This is gold content though guys and Ben. People underestimate how important mental game is for winning at poker imo. Look at all the idiots in other threads like 6bet me posting crap when in this thread there are literally pots of gold posts and these micro stakes guys don’t even comment. Sad really.

Glgl

yup, mental game seems to be one of the most important skills to work on and acquire imo, super grateful for all you guys posting the nuggets of wisdom in this thread

Yeah I know, I just wanted to answer few ones separately but maybe I am a whale lol