Thanks man see you at the tables. Your SN public?

If your beating 1/3 live as you say you are and you table select well on Carbon, you should have no problems beating 10nl pal. There are only like 3 regs at 10nl that are even any good/longterm winners tbh. I'm a 10nl reg on Carbon, getting close to 25 nl, hit me up on skype: gloccamorra23 or PM me or whatever we can talk teh pokerz.

Thank you for the offer, I think I am at the point where I think a sweat session/sweat HH from a 4NL-25NL reg would benefit me because I must have leaks that I can't find, I am just treading water online.

If anyone else is interested just reply ITT or PM me with a simple yes and what stakes you play. I'll do all the leg work of setting up the time, download whatever chat/recording software that you use, etc. to make it convenient for you, I really just want to improve.
I did grind out of 4NL twice, building up from less than $50 to over $250 so I am sure I can help someone who is losing/breakeven at 4NL get out of the sandpit if you need help. I don't have much experience on leading a sweat session/whatever is standard so if I am going to be helping you, please be patient and we'll have to ask around on how to do stuff. I definitely can go over HH's with you though.

---------------------------

Now in the past 5 days I shipped $110 somewhere, somehow. $50 for my 10NL shot in 1500 hands, and tilting $60 off at 4NL in 1500 hands!! How the hell? I can't even...

I think what happened was I felt entitled to win again. After I gently slammed my laptop closed, I took a good 30 minutes to reflect on what the hell happened in the past few days.

Why am I tilting at uNL? Do I care about the money I lost? Is it significant to me? No. I have a 5k+ live bankroll, losing $100 at 1/3+ is nothing, and it happens on a daily basis. I play poker only for money, nothing else matters. Or that is the lie I have been telling myself ever since I started investing time into poker, that I am a robot at the table only to print money with +EV decisions. Seems like the truth is, deep down somewhere in me, I want to "outplay" everyone and never get outplayed by anyone. I'm a genius that should be crushing silly donks and rec players that don't even know how to count pot odds ffs. So if its not the money, but stuff like not winning against these "inferior" opponents that tilts me, that leaves one thing, EGO. I started this thread because I realized that I wasn't as good as I thought. Now, tonight, I realize that I will not achieve my goals from this game without putting in REAL work. I preached to others that I considered inferior players, players I know in real life and on the forums, that they need to work hard if they want to ever leave donk land. Well from here on out, everyone one is my equal in poker, from the ass-backward fish that doesn't know that a flush beats trips to Phil Ivey or durrr. I am going to keep my eyes open to learn from every opportunity, never taking an answer for true until I know the why behind it. Then try to disprove it.

I heard a voice in my head say that I am quitting online poker tonight, that I've played my last session on the virtual felt.

This was the session that was supposed to end my whole online career.
F*** that. Not until I get what I came to this game for.

/rant

And today, new goal, real simple.

[]Grind out of 4NL patiently. Thats all.

Online roll: $40
Lets do this.

No.

I'd be interested in a sweat session. I'm not a full time grinder. Was break even for a few months but in the last 2 months have started making a profit. Taking shots at 10Nl when I see a soft table and have been winning there also. I have some leaks I'm trying to fix but it sounds like you may have a few more.

PM me if interested.

Sometimes I can predict people sucking out on me because of how long I'm over due for a bad beat haha.

If you're looking for some help to get out of 4nl I'm more than glad to help you out. I'm currently beating 4nl at a good rate. I can sweat you / review your database (assuming you have holdem manager 2) and plug some leaks for you. If you're interested hit me up. My skype is cole.garner1

Good luck at the tables Following now <3

GL at the tables!

Thanks guys, Will be contacting you within the month. We probably played against each other if you play on merge? Should be some good lulz when you find out who I am. Unfortunately I have PT4 so I'll have to do some converting. What type of program would you guys recommend for the sweat session? I am guessing we have to have some sort of screen sharing software that is compatible with each party.

Thank you sir!
----------------------

Over the past few days I have spoke with several players to improve my game, thanks to all that helped out, really appreciated it. Some general leak spots were pointed out, and mindset issues were looked at objectively. This mini-break also allowed me to rethink my goals. I decided for me, I don't want to grind 4NL anymore, I am definitely certain I can climb out again for the third time if I wanted to, but it is not worth the time for me. I am going to deposit, something like $300 and start from 10NL. That takes about 2-3 months off from re-grinding, I am going to drown online or I am swimming to the top of the micros (50-100?NL) this year. For the rest of this month I will be grinding some Live games hard. I will try and put 20 hour in a week, starting today.

Short term goal: 2k profit in 20 days.

You can use http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx for a sweat. I'm on Carbon so I assume we've had some history. PM me your SN and I will return mine. I use HM2.

I like your plan of $300 deposit and then 10NL. I've been adding in some 10NL tables and have a nice win rate. There is plenty of spew to be found.

GL with the live grind.

I don't see how anyone can advise you that this is a good idea. I had mentioned going to 10NL in my thread saying I wanted to do it because I didn't take 4nl seriously and it seemed like a waste of time. Someone said DO NOT DO THAT. If you are not a proven winning player yet you will only lose more money.

I am not trying to be a jerk. I am being honest when I say that I agree with this person who says don't do it. Winning players crush 4nl and get out of it in less than two months. You have not done this yet.

To show you this is true, check out a couple of winning players on pokertableratings.com that use to play 4nl on merge (pretty recently) and moved up. Look at their .02/.04 winnings. They can drop down any time and beat this limit. What's even funnier is that at the tables people tell them they are donks and don't know what they are doing. I have played with both and have seen people call them idiots when in fact they are winning players.

Screen names: YouAreATurtle and i8bet72off

Other winning players will tell you that when you are a winning player you will crush 4nl. They are right. Everyone else tries to find excuses to move up before they should and all they do is exactly what I did in the past - just lose MORE money.

Your goals are too big for 4nl? You can't spend the time at 4nl? What's the rush? Poker is not going anywhere. If you are not a winning player you will not beat any limit. That's what the WINNING players have told me, and I decided to listen because I know they are right.

GL whatever you decide.

I think that sometimes that at the very lowest stakes the money doesn't mean enough. With a 2K live roll clicking All In or call for $4 becomes too easy.

I had the same problem. Fortunately for me it's not a money issue, I want to be a winning player for my ego. I think it's the same for you Laura. To reload is not a problem. So for a long time I was too happy to call/whatever - its a few bucks. It took several months to overcome this.

So I think there is some merit in moving up if it brings more focus to your game and you can still afford to lose the money.

Of course I take your point that if you can't beat 4nl you will probably struggle at 10nl. Thought from my limited forays into 10nl it doesnt seem any harder.

No, it is not the same for me. I have to reload because I am not a winning player. I have played all kinds of limits online and have lost at them all. I tried to fool myself into believing moving to higher stakes was the answer and it's very easy to do. It was a bunch of bull. I was a losing player and was some how hoping that the reason I was losing was because I was playing a limit that was too low. People tell themselves this crap all the time. It's a common pitfall that should be avoided.

The fact is that if you are a winning player you are out of 4nl in no time. They suited has not shown anything to indicate he can beat online poker. In fact the little bit of live hours he has logged isn't enough to show he is a live winning player. Plus, his live competition is in home games in which we have no idea what the level of competition is for him. If he were playing 1/3 at casinos at least we all know what to expect.

I think it is a huge mistake. He said not too long ago his goals were too aggressive to play .04 and that he was moving to .10. Then he got crushed and was ready to quit online poker. I don't care if he has done 50 sweat sessions and read 5 books since then. He should be beating 4nl before moving up or he will just lose more money if he is not a winning player.

When you become a winning player you will know it. You will see everything a thousand times more clearly like I do right now. It's as if someone flips a switch and puts the light on. I know I will beat 4nl now. It is just a matter of time before I show everyone else this (like a few weeks away). Until anyone KNOWS they are a winning player and has grinded out the appropriate bankroll for the next level, they are probably just throwing their money away.

I made this mistake a dozen times or more in the past. I hate to see anyone else do the same thing.

Just to touch on this point. I told myself things like this and believed it until I kept losing at all limits. I would never, never, never, ever call for "just a few buck" now. Heck, I would not even call .04 now if it was not the correct play!

It is not about the money when you are using a method to figure out what the correct play is every single hand, every single street. All you will think about is making the correct move. If you are not, you are probably not a winning player. You will not make a call that is not the correct move no matter what it costs. Trust me ...

^ +1

That sort of thinking won't get you out of the micros. At the tables no matter what stakes you're playing, you're playing with bb's. You wan't to win those bb's and it doesn't matter if the bb's are worth very little moneywise. All bb's are important

GL

Thanks for all the responses. The thing about BRM and depositing is that it really depends on your personal situation. Your winrate, risk aversion, tilt issues, degen-ness and all the other factors are what determine the route you should take.

I already went through the 4NL grind a few times. Grinded from <$50 to $200+. It took me, just like you said, about 2 months. Whenever I play online, I do so at the expense of my live play. So basically I am giving up money to play uNL. But thats fine because I know I am not at the level to make money yet online, I am playing to
1) improve my game
2) set myself up for better opportunities poker wise. (Not much room to go above 1/3-2/5 where I am at)

Now in terms of not caring about the money, that is not an issue for me, you'll never see me open-shove J4o just because its my last $3.50 or something and not caring. My main issue is time, or more specifically, my opportunity-cost. The cons to depositing or starting higher is that you can potentially (most likely) lose at a faster rate than if you grind through the stakes. I'm willing to risk getting punished by the slightly better field at 10NL to reap the reward of a faster progression.

This is a good goal.

This is not a good goal. No matter how well you play, there is absolutely nothing you can do to control your results.

Good luck at 10NL
BL

Uh ... none of this makes any sense to me. Opportunity-cost??? You will most likely lose more but it's okay because of the faster progression??

Bottom line - you haven't beat anything yet. Not even 4nl. That's why you don't already have $300 in your online account. It's not likely you will lose more right now. It's guaranteed.

Hope you are getting advice from he right people TheySuited. Good luck.

The 2k is just a run good "cool goal"/motivator, im not gonna beat myself up if I don't get it, my main is to just put in 20 hours a week.

And yeah well I guess I gotta learn one way or the other then, stay tuned for some 10NL splashing I guess and lets plug some leaks together. I'll be sure to keep posting.

Quick update, couldn't hit my hour goal because 1 or 2 of my session days I played HU .25/.50 with my friends haha. We play something similar to the Durrr challenge where we have to put up a certain amount of money and play a certain amount of hours.We would play before we go out to play 1/3 but then one of us would get stuck and demand to keep playing and end up not going.... friend pride equity>making money lol

So here is what I had for the last week:

4.5hrs +0
1hrs +550
5hrs +900
4.5hrs -465
-----
15hrs +985

I'll be on the grind this week again, also just registered for a $500 18 man tournament for Saturday 3/18. Gotta bink one for the roll boost haha.

hey theysuited,

have you ever thought about playing live fulltime instead of dabbling in 4nl/10nl? if you're doing that well in live, i think it makes much more sense to play live and earn some good amount of $/hr rather than lose $/hr online.

i play 4NL onlnie and the only reason i play online is to get better so i can crush live. if i was crushing live poker, i'd quit 4nl/10nl altogether. theres so little $ in online poker in the US at the moment that theres no real reason to play it (unless you're a beginner like me and want to improve your fundamentals).

Yeah I have thought about it, but there are a few things kind of preventing me.

1) thing is I live at home and my parents don't like me playing. Anytime they see me play online they shake their head, like in disappointment. Or if I say I am "going out" they're like, "oh to go gambling huh..." lol So I can't openly announce that I am going to play poker as a job. They will let me play now though because they know I am doing well and pay for household stuff, bills, even snap shipped them 1.5k when they were having some money troubles and told them pay me back if and when they can. I understand their concern (degens gon degen, even though I have never asked for money since I started playing in high school) so I will probably move out when I hit 15-20k in my poker roll (hard to build bankroll with rent so I'll just try to stay home so I can move up stakes and out the house asap).

2) have a job now (to ease parents and insta-money outside my roll just in case) and working is time consuming. I put in 40 hours a week there so the most I can play right now is 20 hours of live poker a week. Ill never play more than that because I want to keep a balanced life/sleep etc.

And yeah playing uNL sucks sometimes but I treat it as a learning experience learning because it has helped me find a lot of leaks that would have took long to find playing live. And also makes me realize I still have a lot of room for improvement. But I also want to get to Small stakes online because i feel like there is more opportunity/flexibility. When school starts in fall I should be able to play live a lot more since I will be dorming. Hopefully by the time I graduate or turn 21, I have a solid roll and can play some 5/10 part-time or for a semi-living (or just degen for a few months for fun )

Alright, $500 buy in tournament tomorrow, gonna need some run good. And I'll probably play some 2/5 on the side tables if I bust early, hopefully not though! Will be my biggest cash yet if I can bink this.

Just got back from the tourney and I shipped the whole thing, first place!! My biggest tournament and best finish. First place payed 5.1k after we made a deal to scrape some off 1st, 2nd, and 3rd to pay bubble boy. Also tipped the dealer $100. I sold 10% of my action to my friend so he binked $500 and I got $4500 added to my roll. Ran good when I needed to and actually made some perfect folds at the right time. Feels great to win a tournament.

Goals for this week:

[] 15-20 hours at 1/3 Live
[] Continue to study and work with others to plug leaks, get ready to jump back online and play some 10NL

So here is the month summary:

March 1-31

Online

4NL: $-101.03 in 4833 hands for a win rate of -52.26bb/100
10NL: $-51.67 in 1701 hands for a win rate of -30.38 bb/100

Fun month online, lowest volume I think I had but I had no choice, I would notice signs of tilt after like 27 hands and quit after the next possible tilt trigger. Despite a total of <7k hands I put in around 10 attempted sessions and couldn't get anything going, I didn't even want to try to play on to reach my 1.5k-2k hand per session goal. This brought my roll down to the danger point, and I decided to go through with a deposit on carbon. Almost lit the remainder of my former roll on the virtual BJ table, but I guess I am not a true degen after all and told myself, money saved is good as money won... I did want to have a story to tell in the degen thread...

Live

Cash game (mostly 1/3 with some 1/2): +$1298 after $24.5 hours
Tournament: $+3875 after 3 tournaments, 9.5 hours

A good month Live for me, big month considering the volume.

APRIL Goals

Didn't play any hands live yet, deposited $375 on Carbon. Had about $2x dollars left so I'll round up the online roll starting point to $400 (too tilted to look at monitor so I wasn't sure what my balance was when I snap closed laptop... hehe)

What I did so far pokerwise... On April 1st I played 10NL and insta-dropped 5BI's in about 1k hands after depositing. Pretty bad for my moral so haven't played since. As I already mentioned, I didn't play a live session yet, reason being I have been degening with my friends playing .25/.50. I lost against my my friend in my HU challenge, he was up by less than a BI with an hour left and he just folded to victory, ship the $120... . Also been playing 4 handed with my friends, winning some decent spending money, but it takes away from my 1/3 time (work) and also drains my body because we will play tilted, tired, and stuck until the sun comes up or roll is busted lol. I will not be playing with them this month, if there are no 1/3 opportunities, I'll do something more productive like studying or de-tilting my brain haha.

My only goal this month, is to organize my poker playing schedule, I want to get an x amount of volume in both live and online. I will have a schedule drafted up before Monday and will follow it and establish a routine.

GL to myself!