Just found your thread, i'm also playing on BV and have found at least for myself i do much better at regular cash than zone. Also since they added regular cash to the mobile app i think that makes those games even better as well. Anyway GL.

Glad you found the thread and hope you enjoy! I think Zone has it's place for some players, however I personally play better with the table dynamics and reads. Oh well, gave Zone a shot and ended about 10 buyins down below EV. I'll get them back at the regular tables!

Grandfathered rakeback account?

I have a bodog account from many many years ago. I had rakeback on raketherake. Are those accounts still rakeback'd?

Every old account with RB still has it...Bovada didn't pull them...its just a lot of shady providers post black Friday stopped paying out bc they ran out of payout option . It sounds like they may be collecting off your play if your not getting your RB. I won't out my provider but they've been very reputable and pay me out monthly and go above abd beyond for me.

My nasty downswing continues and I lost another 4 buyins over two sessions today. The bad players are running insanely hot vs me and I don't even want to begin to express the frustration with my downswing. It's now topped out at 18 buyins and I've officially lost all my profits since depositing and am slightly below my deposit. I've been reviewing hands and much of it is hands that are standard coolers or hands like TPTK in 3 bet pot vs turned two pair, top set vs runner runner in 3 bet pot, etc.

I'm insanely frustrated and I need to take a few days off to clear my head and regroup. I'm walking thin territory mentally as I was cruising and can't buy a win anymore. I'll likely take 3 days minimum off and I'll need to regroup and catch up on my monthly goals later.

Hope everyone is running better than I am.

That sucks bro. This sorta crap happened to me in zone.

Bovada is swingy, especially zone. I've had several profitable months (1.5k+) playing about 60k hands a month at 50nl and 25nl zone and then went on a complete breakeven stretch for a whole month in which I played about 70k hands. It happens.

The best thing you can do is fix your leaks while on a downswing as that is usually the only good that comes from them. I swear, each time I have a 8+ buyin downswing I am forced to fix a leak or two and once I am through the downswing I have a larger winrate.

Statistically, games are always best in winter. Tighten up a bit, keep up the volume, and it'll all work out.

Thanks man and yep...that's what I've been doing. Really just tightening up and focusing on the volume. If the bad players don't cooler or call down and bink, I could just as easily be up 20 buyins so I'm keeping a level head that it'll turn around.

If anything, right now I'm feeling injustrice and entitlement tilt which I'll work on the root cause the next few days. Thanks all for the words of encouragement!

I'm in the same boat. I had a great October in general but the last few days started downswinging which has continued into November. It coincidentally started when I started firing up 2 Zone tables and 2 reg. 6max tables. I don't feel I played bad. But I'm going to really study my stats and find someone to look over them with for another opinion. Just feel like I got coolered a lot. But maybe I was running insane and it just leveled off... I guess with more hands under my belt I know.

So last night I had the same table set up going and dropped 1.5 BI pretty quick. I closed the Zone tables and went to 4 reg 6max tables and brought it back for a small profit. Gonna do my best to continue the climb today.

GL to you.

Sigh.. I don't know how much more of this downswing that I can handle.

-2.5 BI today.

-3 bet 89s on button vs CO...CO flats.. flop Q8J... he check/calls my cbet. Turn 8...he check jams with A8o. Lovely cooler...great call pre and on flop...

-Lost AA vs turned set on 5J82 board. Great flop float.

- Lost AKs vs AQ vs AQ... Qxx flop.


Uninstalled Bovada on all my computers and going out of commission for a few days if not until after the weekend.

Why 3! 89S from button? What's CO and blinds ranges bc thus play can be standard or its spew/tilt. We play anonymous tables. U can't just play lik it's a regular site where it's 4 regs with massive history and 2 fish. Again I'm not saying its play bad. If u have reads on blinds n CO its standard. But if u have no reason other than I had 89s OTB it's spew.

Not tying to be rude but 20 BI is more than variance. There is spew in there. U just need to review and find it. GL. I have a thread on here also and I want everyone with one too succeed. Just take a break.find leaks. Crush again

Some people 3 bet a lot, some don't. Personally I'd call there pre, and I'd check behind the flop. Definitely a cooler the way it's played, but I feel it should have been played differently to maximize the hands value.

As an aside, I think 3 betting there is best if you're playing on stars where you expect to be squeezed. I don't know if you've played on those sites recently, but if so you might need to reevaluate your strategy.

That's my point. On a regular site where we have history is way different than an anonymous site. To 3! 89S OTB U need to know or have idea about specific calling ranges AND how they will play post. If u don't then ur clicking buttons with no reads

I don't mind 3 betting 89s as I mix that into my game from time to time. Sure it looks awful the one time I get coolered but it's a very easy hand to play when you get called. If there was an open and caller then I'd be more inclined to call instead of 3 bet, but with the CO opener being standard and the blinds being night, I decided to mix up my game and take the aggressive approach. The CO had opened a few times from the CO the last few orbits and sometimes when I notice this happening, I'll 3 bet a time or two in order to protect my button.

I'm also sure that with any downswing there is some leaks/spew. I can say with confidence that the majority of my downswing has been bad side of variance. I'd estimate off the top of my head that 14 or so buyins were straight coolers/getting run down when way ahead all in. The remaining 5-6 or so were spots where I get into weird spots where technically I should fold but the likely hood they have it is slim to none. Ex: Raised pot, they x/c a T42 flop, turn 9 he xc, river a Q...he x/shoves when I'm pot committed with a set of tens.

Either way, I appreciate the input and I 100% plan to review my play for leaks and to use this time to really analyze my game. I think it's natural when on a downswing to feel like the world is against you and sometimes you tend to force the action. I need to do a better job of a pregame warmup, cool down, and more strickly enforced stop loss.

Yea if u have a reason to 3! Then fine. 89s is a good hand to 3bet In Posistion, vs tight villains. I just was wondering if u had a reason or u just did it bc it was sooted lol.

Quick point. U say u get put in spots where "slim chance villain has it". How can u know it's a slim chance? U have no history with that player. How would u know if he only gets his stack in or raises with the nuts? We don't. We can't make as thin EV plays bc we lack history. If villain starts with 100bb, he x/c two streets then x/shove the river then it's a nutted hand 85% of time, Yes sometimes u will be bluffed. O well. It not pot committed if you lose 80% off time. Save that money. At the end of downswing those 30-40BB u call off Bc, "he can't have it, and I'm committed" add up. Yea maybe u were always gonna lose 8 buyins no matter what, but with bad calls bc "I'm committed" can turn it into a 12 BI downswing. Majority of these players are loose passive. When a loose passive gets aggro ur prolly no good.

Look at ur database. I did. I get bluffed (as any non fish shud) sometimes, but majority of time they have it. Even if "it" is some super crazy ****. That's the point of anonymous. Fish can play or call with anything and feel no embarrassment. So on Bovada u have too expect and be prepared to make crazy folds. A villain check/shoving a 833 board is way different than a villain check shoving T872Q. Especially if he didn't start short stacked I'm sure ur database is the same. Ppl ain't check shoving OTR light.

If u 3! KK and get called flop Q7T. I fold to a check raise bc of purely combos. There are just not alot of hands I beat that Villian will play for stacks. Call me nitty. Yes sometimes an idiot shows AT and I lose 15BB. But the majority of time It's QQ QT AQ 77 TT. So I save a stack. Now same thing, I have KK but flop is T72. I'm getting it in bc I beat TP spazz hands, and QQ and JJ. Big difference combo wise

Not saying all this like I'm a know it all. I just know I rarely get stacked n when I check the hands the next day I'm usually right. It's all about posistion and stack sizes and population tendencies. I use all these to look at a situation and determine in a vacuum what I would do

I agree to an extent and I play very ABC. I can bet/fold when I know a play isn't likely. Most of the spots I've run into are players floating and going runner runner or weird spot where they rep a hand on the river that's not possible unless they made two really bad peels, which in my case they have been. I'll take a look through the database though to assure I'm plugging any leaks. This type of feedback is reason I started this thread so I appreciate the thoughful contribution .

Yea. Like I said I don't know it all and ur prolly a better player than me. I have a PG&C on here as well and u guys serve as my motivation so I want to b supportive and share things, and I how others will do same for me. GL tho. U will turn it around

You probably cbet too much

Unless you're a pro GTO or cheating, 70%+ isnt gonna work vs tards.

I have over a 4million hand DB of 25-50nl games on a decently soft network. I have about 6 regs that win more than 1bb. 2 of them have 70% but they are sick pro bots. 3 of them are massive 17/15 nits with 60% cbet and the other one is me with 40%-50% cbet. All the 70%+ are losing.

Also i suggest you start potting the button and raising smaller in the blinds. It works MUCH better vs loose tables/tards/maniacs. I have a good DB on 3x-2x and 2.2x and now i have about 15k hand with POT. POT gives me 50 to 65% more folds. I went from a 22% steal success on the btn to 60-70% and i raise about 40-50% of hands

Micros arent real poker, you cant use what you learned before if you really want to crush it. Im doing a 400$ back to 200nl challenge and 25 wasnt like anything i had ever seen. 50 is a tard fest.. took me 30k hand to adjust to both limits

I 100% disagree with 3.5x button open when in position. The idea isn't to steal but to play as many pots in position as possible. Thus, I open more in the blinds (SB) to avoid playing oop. In general I cbet less than 45% as my goal isn't aggro aggro aggro...its selective cbetting. When 3.5x openning button, your discouraging action when you want it...in position. I'd much rather open more UTG when j don't necessarily care if I'm called or steal the pot or don't want to play out of position.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. I just experinented a ton and I've had tons of success min opening button and half pot cbetting. Allows cheaper cbets when I miss, makes stealing more profitable, and I can call more 3bets.

you can disagree all you want but these past 2 months i have played close to 200k hands of micros and tested pretty much every strategy vs weaker players/bad aggro regs and these were my findings

Nothing is a given in poker. I win at a high rate with a 70% cbet. If you cbet smaller, or larger, less often or more often, certain preflop decisions are better or worse. With that said, once I got back on Bovada I found 3x > 2x on the button. But then again you guys do way more checking back then me, and what might work good for me may be incorrect for you.

So I'm 50/50 on if I end this journey and withdraw from Bovada. Another -3 bI today to 3 gems.

- Lost AA to K4o in 4b pot, AI on 662 flop.
- Lost 99 on 4489J to JJ (opened pre, I called, he lead flop, I call, he lead/called turn, x called river shove)
- Lost AQ to AK in sb vs bb in 3b pot on A54 flop ai.

There is no end in site and i've been losing tons of small pots too where players check/call a hand like JT on AA7 or something when I have a hand like 99 and they'll bink a J or T on later streets. Downswing is brutal and I officially have 0 confidence and am playing scared poker now seeing monsters (which they've had every time) under the bed. I've been focused on just making the best play and playing very tight/solid and can't seem to avoid disasters and can't seem to get anything going.

This stretch has been even more frustrating because the player pool and games are some of the best I've seen in years on the site and I can't capitalize. This is especially frustrating as I've put a lot of work in my game lately and set large goals for myself this month. I've uninstalled Bovada from all my computers and I'll need to do some deep reflecting to see if this is even worth pursuing. As is, I feel helpless and everytime I think it can't get worse, it has been.

Hope to update everyone in a week or so on how I decide to proceed.

"one of these days you'll run worse than you've ever thought possible"

pretty sure its just one of those stretchs, quitting poker for a week to clear your head is good but don't quit for good

Seriously bovada is great for 200+ where the money matters but low stakes you need a network with rakeback.