I always came under the impression that the stables were trying to imply both that getting there is essential for our progress nowadays, and that it is a privilege, with selection processes going on, interview, psychologists, and anything I forgot. And I always wondered, taking Metagame as an example, how can a stable have so many students (is it close to BTS?) and keep any quality? While external help from good sources help, to me it is quite misleading to imply it is as important, or more important, than individual intelligence and effort. And Saulo is very guilty of making subtle and not so subtle references to this one, just read his posts on the RIO forums where he was defending CFPs.

I don't remember which one, and don't have an elite sub now, but one of those Maximizing EV videos he made was one of the most blatant self promotions I ever saw in my life. It's ok doing it on his own youtube channel, but doing it on runitonce, and they allowing, is one of the main reasons I think 100x before making any new sub there.

didn’t players who struggled for years managed to finally breakthrough with the help of CFPs?

I fail to see how it can be this bad, if a CFP gets you from 25nl to 200nl within a few months and you had to give away half your profit it’s still probably worth it, not like you give up all that recently acquired knowledge

w/o knowing the aggregate data on players progression, it's probably highly subjective and differs from player to player whether it outperforms individual coaching.

Right off the bat I'd say extroverted people would take more from the group coaching environment. Obviously the weaker the player starts the steeper his progression will be. oP probably went in w/ alot of foundational knowledge and like he said "fastly diminishing returns".

maybe the stories I read about were outliers but they were essentially players I would have thought were hopeless and now can play nl1k comfortably

no natural talent, not very good and trial and error etc. but somehow this worked for them, this MDA thing with fairly simple yet effective approach to playing all streets

Don't completely agree with the quote but I love sentiment.

Some do, some don't. The problem with the big CFPs is that you rarely get any actual coaching. You might get an hour or so every quarter. You generally just get access to the material, access to a discord group, some weekly group coaching sessions, and a 1 on 1 session every quarter. At scale, it is a low risk business venture for the CFP. You sign an agreement saying you owe them money if you are in makeup and that they take a percentage of your winnings, so if you don't succeed, at worst, they break even with very little loss of time. If you succeed, then they make a lot of money off of you. More than you would have spend on 1 on 1 coaching if you just paid out of pocket.

Flop top set and auto lose OTT. Standard

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 2(BB)
HERO ($393) [VPIP: 29% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 36.7% | Flop Agg: 41.6% | Turn Agg: 33.9% | River Agg: 37.1% | 3Bet: 11.5% | Fold to 3Bet: 60.2% | 4Bet: 14.2% | Hands: 317562]
BB ($318.50) [VPIP: 37.5% | PFR: 37.5% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 9]
UTG ($300.64) [VPIP: 41.4% | PFR: 26.3% | AGG: 22.5% | Hands: 100]
HJ ($200) [VPIP: 11.8% | PFR: 11.8% | AGG: 33.3% | Flop Agg: 0% | Turn Agg: 100% | River Agg: 0% | 3Bet: 16.7% | 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 17]
CO ($202) [VPIP: 35.3% | PFR: 29.4% | AGG: 41.2% | Hands: 103]
BTN ($425.89) [VPIP: 22.5% | PFR: 15% | AGG: 40% | Hands: 81]

Dealt to Hero: 9 9

UTG Folds, HJ Raises To $5, CO Folds, BTN Folds, HERO Raises To $24, BB Folds, HJ Calls $19

Hero SPR on Flop: [3.52 effective]
Flop ($50): 9 6 5
HERO Checks, HJ Checks

Turn ($50): 9 6 5 T
HERO Checks, HJ Bets $47.50 (Rem. Stack: $128.50), HERO Raises To $369 (allin), HJ Calls $128.50 (allin)

River ($595): 9 6 5 T 2

There are levels to this ****

Snap CALL

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 2(BB)
HERO ($200) [VPIP: 29% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 36.7% | Flop Agg: 41.6% | Turn Agg: 33.9% | River Agg: 37.1% | 3Bet: 11.5% | Fold to 3Bet: 60.2% | 4Bet: 14.2% | Hands: 317626]
BTN ($783.20) [VPIP: 27.8% | PFR: 19.4% | AGG: 50% | Hands: 37]
SB ($200) [VPIP: 12.5% | PFR: 12.5% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 40]
BB ($200) [VPIP: 25% | PFR: 12.5% | AGG: 100% | Hands: 8]
UTG ($300.84) [VPIP: 27.5% | PFR: 22.5% | AGG: 20% | Hands: 40]
HJ ($217.25) [VPIP: 30.6% | PFR: 27.8% | AGG: 41.7% | Flop Agg: 66.7% | Turn Agg: 0% | River Agg: 33.3% | 3Bet: 8.3% | 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 39]

Dealt to Hero: T 9

UTG Folds, HJ Raises To $6, HERO Raises To $18, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Folds, HJ Calls $12

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.67 effective]
Flop ($39): 3 A 3
HJ Checks, HERO Bets $9.26 (Rem. Stack: $172.74), HJ Calls $9.26 (Rem. Stack: $189.99)

Turn ($57.52): 3 A 3 5
HJ Checks, HERO Checks

River ($57.52): 3 A 3 5 9
HJ Bets $80 (Rem. Stack: $109.99), HERO Calls $80 (Rem. Stack: $92.74)



As an aside, not sure how I feel about this whole coaching thing. I'm literally giving away gold for a peasant's wage of $50/hr.(obviously the problem isn't the hourly it's that students only need like 1 coaching session a week) CLEARLY, the student is getting a way better deal so I should either stop coaching or up my rate. We will see.

Yup. That's why I stopped coaching.

It also takes time to get to know the student, get paid by them and to prep the lecture, which reduces the overall $/hr you're making by quite a bit.

Yeah it's not a 1:1 type deal because the knowledge is exponential and forever.

It's pretty comical in my mind because I was such a hater on coaches like "these guys don't win and their hourly is way too high!"

Realistically, the sheer amount of knowledge I can transfer to someone else in a 60 minute timespan, an hourly of what you normally make is WAY TOO ******* LOW .

This is why coaching SHOULD ALWAYS be higher than someone's hourly. For me. $50 is a literal joke. The only reason I'm doing it now is for stress relief since I'm underolled. Once that is over with I'm jacking my rates or just going deuces on the whole coaching thing.

just stop coaching and play more poker dude

Yeah poker coaching like staking takes a special set of circumstances to be aligned for it to make sense for both parties.

It's something you have to really enjoy doing as well. Sounds like you don't so makes sense to just play.

Coaching only really makes sense if you enjoy it.

In
Good luck

is this a common MDA spot in the bet check bet line in 3b pots ip when villain leads overbet river? what if villain jams?

How many hours would you say you spend playing poker each week on average? How about studying? Do you play fast fold or regular tables?

I like to study more than I play too but struggle to put in volume sometimes.

Yes overbluffed for this sizing, fold to a jam though.

Probably 20hr playing/20hrs studying. I play reg tables.

Thinking about spots in game when you are away from your PC is pretty important imo. The more you think about something, usually the better you understand it.

I guess easy fold what else can he have.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 2(BB)
HERO ($205.85) [VPIP: 29% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 36.7% | Flop Agg: 41.6% | Turn Agg: 33.9% | River Agg: 37.1% | 3Bet: 11.5% | 4Bet: 14.2% | Cold Call: 9.2% | Hands: 318336]
SB ($391.26) [VPIP: 32.4% | PFR: 23.5% | AGG: 19.2% | Hands: 34]
BB ($200) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
UTG ($218.54) [VPIP: 15.6% | PFR: 15.6% | AGG: 75% | Flop Agg: 33.3% | Turn Agg: 100% | River Agg: 100% | 3Bet: 0% | 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 32]
HJ ($186.60) [VPIP: 36.4% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 23.5% | Flop Agg: 14.3% | Turn Agg: 33.3% | River Agg: 25% | 3Bet: 0% | 4Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 38.5% | Hands: 22]
CO ($221.06) [VPIP: 33.3% | PFR: 22.2% | AGG: 37.5% | Hands: 9]

Dealt to Hero: 6 6

UTG Raises To $5, HJ Calls $5, CO Folds, HERO Calls $5, SB Folds, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [10.09 effective]
Flop ($18): 2 2 8
UTG Checks, HJ Checks, HERO Checks

Turn ($18): 2 2 8 6
UTG Bets $8.60 (Rem. Stack: $204.94), HJ Calls $8.60 (Rem. Stack: $173), HERO Calls $8.60 (Rem. Stack: $192.25)

River ($43.80): 2 2 8 6 7
UTG Checks, HJ Checks, HERO Bets $31.21 (Rem. Stack: $161.04), UTG Raises To $204.94 (allin), HJ Folds, HERO Folds



Remember this line prints

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 2(BB)
HERO ($322.87) [VPIP: 29% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 36.7% | Flop Agg: 41.6% | Turn Agg: 33.9% | River Agg: 37.1% | 3Bet: 11.5% | 4Bet: 14.2% | Hands: 318336]
SB ($354.66) [VPIP: 35% | PFR: 32.5% | AGG: 39.1% | Hands: 41]
BB ($200) [VPIP: 50% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 100% | Flop Agg: 100% | Turn Agg: 100% | River Agg: 100% | 3Bet: 0% | 4Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 50% | Hands: 2]
HJ ($283.03) [VPIP: 17.4% | PFR: 17.4% | AGG: 40% | Hands: 23]
CO ($279.52) [VPIP: 21.4% | PFR: 9.5% | AGG: 14.3% | Hands: 43]

Dealt to Hero: J A

HJ Folds, CO Folds, HERO Raises To $5, SB Folds, BB Calls $3

Hero SPR on Flop: [17.73 effective]
Flop ($11): 9 K 4
BB Bets $2.82 (Rem. Stack: $192.18), HERO Calls $2.82 (Rem. Stack: $315.05)

Turn ($16.64): 9 K 4 7
BB Bets $5.22 (Rem. Stack: $186.96), HERO Calls $5.22 (Rem. Stack: $309.83)

River ($27.08): 9 K 4 7 2
BB Bets $8.49 (Rem. Stack: $178.47), HERO Raises To $29.71 (Rem. Stack: $280.12), BB Folds



60k hand update coming soon.

Man poker players are really something. If $ is below their poker hourly they view it as worthless and "a peasant's wage".

Crazy the entitlement leads to someone viewing a 95ish percentage tax free hourly income as a "literal joke".

its a well known fact that if you can't beat something like 25nl by yourself, any amount of coaching/CFP isnt gonna do jack ****.

Poker requires a type of logical brain that you either have or not. That is why someone that never studied and left 10 years can come back and be better than the study monkeys in the micro forums.

That is where the CFP business model comes from: Give the other type of brains hope > get their money or rakeback > do not waste any ressource on them, as its hopeless > bank cash forever.

This is a terrible take.

Putting this here so I remember it.

Very nuanced spot, small OB = Underbluffed. 2xpot+ = Overbluffed

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 2(BB)
HERO ($200) [VPIP: 29% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 36.6% | Flop Agg: 41.6% | Turn Agg: 33.8% | River Agg: 37.1% | 3Bet: 11.5% | Fold to 3Bet: 60.2% | 4Bet: 14.2% | Hands: 318959]
UTG ($459.22) [VPIP: 25% | PFR: 20% | AGG: 42.9% | Hands: 20]
HJ ($477.48) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 2]
CO ($273.23) [VPIP: 15% | PFR: 15% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 20]
BTN ($200.35) [VPIP: 35% | PFR: 30% | AGG: 50% | Hands: 20]
SB ($381.55) [VPIP: 50% | PFR: 50% | AGG: 33.3% | Flop Agg: 0% | Turn Agg: 0% | River Agg: 100% | 3Bet: 0% | 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 2]

Dealt to Hero: J Q

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Raises To $5, HERO Raises To $17, SB Calls $12

Hero SPR on Flop: [5.38 effective]
Flop ($34): T 8 2
SB Checks, HERO Bets $24.23 (Rem. Stack: $158.77), SB Calls $24.23 (Rem. Stack: $340.32)

Turn ($82.46): T 8 2 J
SB Checks, HERO Checks

River ($82.46): T 8 2 J J
SB Bets $340.32 (allin), HERO Calls $158.77 (allin)