Check check ok?

LOL

I can't believe that's so common in the HR. Any douchebags agree to do so in position and then bet anyways?

I haven't seen anyone do that. It'd be a very cheap move IMO. That'd be like agreeing to check down a hand then shoving on the river, not illegal but about as badly behaved as you can get.

The funny thing about it is that you don't even need to really 'ask' as such, just call out "Check check, ok la" and about 70% of the time, they'll check behind you. I've even done it in position when the guy's obviously weighing up a thin value bet and it's worked. Funny, yeah? Just another area where live poker differs from online.

I've read it before that "Live poker is a hustle, online poker is a science" and surely my experiences make me agree with that. There's a lot of manipulation of image, table talk and acting in live play that doesn't translate at all to the mathematical online game.

Sounds like the action is good at HR.
But I feel so comfortable at GL.

great read! good details! i'm headed to macau solo in 4 days for similar stakes. if you want to get the drink on one night let me know

Xott,

Just as a heads up. I was in Macau for a 5 day stretch a few months ago. I played the 10/25 game for a total of 20 hours at Star World. I brought 10k HKD for gambling and I left with 62k.

This came from only 5-6 sessions at Star World. The games were filled with tourists and weak players. There were a couple regs as well, but they were pretty easy to spot after a few orbits.

I would definitely give it a shot. GL to you.

wait, what?

You made ~17 buy-ins profit in 20 hours of play??

That definitely doesn't fit with what the regs tell me about the Starworld game. According to most reports, it's similar to GL and Venetian - the occasional fish but mostly regs. I don't think that sort of winrate (120BB/hour) is sustainable at any Macau casino at present but I'll definitely be asking around today.

It's not always that good but sporadically it's excellent. Every now and then there's some amazing things happening. I'm pretty sure that the action at GL is mostly similar.

I'm not much of a recreational drinker but I can point you in the right directions. Definitely get in touch while you're here and we can hit the tables together.

5 November:

Rainy and miserable dark day in Macau. I hate walking around in the rain here cos the streets are so dirty that the rain just makes them slippery deathtraps.

I headed off to Hard Rock about 6pm. Got straight into a game that was mostly regulars. Started off awful. Hitting hands on the flop that were obviously losers by the river, getting called down everytime I was weak, some dickish play didn't help either. In about 40 mins, I was stuck 3k and feeling sick. So I changed seat and decided to tighten up a bit and grind it out.

Slowly slowly the table makeup changed until it was actually quite a good table. I was slowly and successfully rebuilding my stack. I got into a good hand with a semi-TAG regular player.
I was BB with 77
He was UTG and PFR 125.
I was the only caller. My stack was about 3400 and I covered him by a little.
Pot: 275
Flop: Q97 2clubs
He leads 400, an overbet. The flop is a bit wettish, so I'm reading this as a bet to take the pot down immediately and prevent draws playing along.
I coldcall - I think he would fold one-pair type hands to a raise or at least shutdown.
Turn: Q. Very nice for me, if he is betting a AQ then he's got to be feeling strong here.
He leads 400, I raise to 1000, he tanks then calls.
River: K
He slowly slowly checks, I hollywood thinking then shove for about 1800. Again he tanks then folds . Maybe I should have put in a more value-size bet of 1k to encourage calling.


A little while later, I had QQ on the button. The table had been a little nitty the last few rounds. A regular American guy (TAG unless drinking) raised UTG to 150. Folds to me and I raise to 425. He looks very suspicious and calls.
The flop is all small cards. He checks, I bet something like 700. He snap openfolds KK!?
He says something like "you can only have AA there, right?". So to encourage his future calls, I show my QQ. At least someone out there thinks I have a strong table image, eh?

There was a laggy Singaporean guy who'd arrived a while back and been involved in a large amount of pots, busted once, rebought and run it up to about 8k. I'd got into a few pots with him and folded to his aggression when I had something like 2nd pair.

Eventually I got AK in late position, I raise to 175 (over a couple of limpers) and he called in the BB. All others folded.
The flop was A23.
He checked, I bet 400 and he checkraised to 900.
I wasn't sure what to do. But based on his table image of betting everything aggressively, I called. My reasoning was that if he had 45, he'd surely bet again; if it was 2pair, it was an easy counterfeit and I could reevaluate the action on the turn; and it was also totally possibly that he'd tried to knock me off a cbet with a big Ace.
The turn was another 3:
He checked, so I checked behind. If he'd hit with the 3, I was well behind, however that was more unlikely now. If it was A2, I'd gotten the counterfeit I needed. If he had another big Ace type hand, it was reasonable to pot control the turn and checked turns generally open up calling ranges on the river.
The river was irrelevant, 8 or 9.
He checked, a bit slowly. I bet $1000. He thought a while, said "sick call" and called while he opened up AQ.


I've always had some trouble handreading my opponents but I think I'm improving. Basically I just try to think "what hands would he be betting/calling/raising with here?" and I'm getting better at matching possible holdings to the action. But here was one where I was totally lost:
Hand three:
There's a weird Chinese guy on my right. He's been there for a while, he's betting a lot of pots and not showing down many cards. I can't define his play, possibly Tag or semi-lag, maybe a maniac or a fish. A couple of regs recognised him and chatted away to him but I'd never seen him before.
I am button with A8c
The nitty table folds to him in the cuttoff. He calls.
I raise to 100, thinking that the blinds will fold, as they do.
weird guy calls.
Flop is AT4r.
He checks, I lead 100, he calls
Turn is 9.
Again, he checks, I lead 100, he calls.
River is J.
He checks, I want to bet but I start to wonder what hands he could possibly be playing. Another Ax hand, a 2 pair hand like t9 or JT, something totally out there? The more I think, the more I am confused. So I check behind and fastroll my Ace.
He opens Q8 for a runner runner gutshot. It's only a small pot but for some reason I got really really angry about it. I had to take a break because it affected me so much, which is a little unusual for me. I only bet when I had the best of it, made a great check on the river, so my play wasn't bad but I'm still pretty upset about it. Of course, today I can't remember exactly why I was so angry, just that I was. Funny what emotions do to you.


It was getting late. I played another hour, getting into only one more hand vs the Singapore guy.
I was sb with A4o.
Singapore was UTG and called. That could mean any hand or complete air based on his previous play. The table was getting really nitty so it was folded to me. I called. A new player in bb raised to 100 and the Singapore guy completed. I wanted to be in any hand vs Singapore so I also called.

The flop was A84r.
I was first to act. I was pretty sure that the BB would cbet or that Singapore would bet so I decided on a checkraise with my 2pair.
I check, BB bets 150 (which is a bit small and just looks cbetty). Then Singapore raises to $450, which is a surprise.
I'm tempted to just call but I didn't, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, the AK/AQ hand we'd played before showed that he could raise TP on the flop. Secondly, I was in position and I wanted to grab the initiative for future streets.
So I raised to $1300.
BB gets out of the way, while loudly saying "Oh dear".
Singapore guy really tanks hard. Obviously a hard decision for him. Eventually he asked "If I call, can we check it down?". Now I think I should have said yes to encourage the call. But at the time, I was deep in the non-reacting zone and staring at the table. Eventually he openfolded 48o.

It was time to go anyway so I played to the BB, cashed out and left. I'd got my money back and $10 profit. Six hours for $10, I must have the lowest hourly rate in the world.

Final result: +$10 HKD
Total Bankroll: 36.6 HKD

Well, to be fair I was running super hot over the course of my stay. I flopped higher set against set 3 or 4 times. I also had a table with a bunch of drunk HK business men one night and they played ATC like it was the last poker table on earth.

However, I still felt that most of the players at the table were below average in skill. I played mostly between 12(noon)-5pm during my stay. Hope this helps.

Oh, and enjoyed the new read! That runner runner gut-shot hand is unfortunate. At least you recognized your anger/ frustration and took a much needed break. A lot of players would sit, stew, and spew in that spot. Well played in my opinion.

A couple of my friends will be going to HR...they weekend regs.
Please give a deeper description of your villians to see if I can spot them
btw...I hope you stack them

Then this one came up. I think I misplayed this one and I'd appreciate any feedback about it - I kind of got lost during it.
Hand One:
I was cutoff and I had Q8 suited. Everyone else called the BB so I did too. No, if everyone jumped off a bridge, I probably wouldn't. I know fold pre is the best option here. But anyway. The button and blinds completed. 8 players to the flop. Pot is $200

The flop: 852 twotone (not my colour tho)
sb, the somewhat drunk Hong Kong girl led for $50, possibly because she didn't understand checking, there was some fold and 2 calls before me.

-------------------------------------------


you asked for advice on this one....on the flop you have a medium sized pair (happens to be TP at this point) and no real draws with 3 others putting more money in before you. i think this should be an obvious? alarm bell to lay it down and simply wait for the next hand.

and limping in as the cut off with 7 others, an obvious must, no?

altho, i suppose 50 more into a 350 pot to sneak a peak at one more card with TP should be done at cut-off...

Yeah, I've asked around a few regs about the action. They reckon it's not bad but not that great anymore. I was hopeful after your post but they reckoned it was quite similar to Hard Rock now. Pity. Maybe you just hit a good run at the right time with the right players.

I didn't stack anyone yesterday. Unfortunately.

I've been thinking a bit about this hand and the runner-runner gutshot hand from Friday.
Both hands, I only got money into the pot when I was ahead. Both times, I didn't get any strong reads about my opponents hands so I checked the river - when I was behind. Both hands were one-pair type hands, not super strong. And both hands upset/confused me.

Maybe it's something about opponents passively calling and catching on the river that makes me a bit angry. Strange. Logically, I want them to be chasing gutshots/draws for 2 streets of action but then when it turns out that they catch, I'm unhappy? I'll have to work on my thought processes here, i think. I'm sure it happens a lot and the villains muck when they miss, which I'm pretty happy about.


As to your advice, I think you're right. Top Pair of Eights isn't going to be especially strong by the river usually. I think the Flop raise and the Turn bet in this hand weren't great moves; although I could make an argument for both, calling in position is probably a much better move. I think the turn bet was the worse move (of the two) as it was mis-sized to punish drawers and more of a pot-sweetener than anything else.

6th Movember

I played a 7hr session yesterday. Hard Rock is currently hosting the Asian Poker Tour series of tournaments so there's been a lot of extra players, some strong, some weak/tight and a few playing a badly adapted tournament game on cash tables.

I played for about two hours yesterday before something strange happened at my table. There was a couple (Taiwanese I think but I'm not sure) sitting together and not playing any pots. Eventually there was a 3bet pot that they were both in. The flop was T99 (or similar). He was first and checked, She was next and checked. The other player in the hand led out $400 (or $500). He then raised to $1000 and she shoved over top for $2500. The unwitting 3rd player had to fold, the boyfriend called. At showdown, she instamucked her cards and he opened AT for a weak hand. Highly suspect. The third player was steaming as he'd folded an overpair to the action.

In spite of complaints to the floor, they remained at the table, sitting next to each other. I've said before that I enjoy the Hard Rock more than the other cardrooms but I was very very disappointed with the weak approach of the floor to an obvious collusion situation. The manager just said "I'll watch a couple of hands to make sure it won't happen again", which is a ridiculous way to catch collusion. Standard action would be to at least warn the couple that collusion isn't permitted and suggest that they play different tables - if not removing them from play and banning them. Like I said, highly disappointed in the floor's approach.


Anyway, I switched tables and the new table was much better. I was a bit dubious when I saw 5 regs playing but soon one swapped tables and one left to go home. I picked up a few pots and was chatting with a table buddy so it was far more pleasant than the previous table as well as being safer. The level of play was rather passive and weak, which was also nice.


But that didn't stop me from playing the following hand:
Button with 92o
It folded around to me so I decided to make a play for the pot. I raised to $100. sb folds and the BB completed. BB was an unknown player, chubby with curly curly hair and maybe a middle eastern accent.
The flop was AKQ
Check to me, I bet $200
BB thinks before calling.
Turn K
both check
River 8
He checks, I bet $400, a last flailing attempt at the pot.
He tanks a bit before calling. I let out a "NoOOOOoOoo" before throwing my cards away. He opens QT to take the pot, which is a pretty bad call but showed that I'd played the player totally wrong. I made somewhat of a point of opening my 92, manipulating my table image in an attempt to gain some meta-advantage from my awful bluff. Sure enough, I didn't run any more bluffs but still got a lot more callers to my bets on later hands.


I think it all paid off on this hand:
I was the button with A8o.

The player in MP (a bit weak but happy to play strong cards only) raised to 50 IIRC.
My table buddy in HJ called and I called with the button.
The Flop:
Ac6h3h
Checked to me, I threw in 125.
MP then check mini-raised to $250.
HJ called
I thought for a while then called. I wondered if he was only checkraising his draws (a couple of strong draws possible) or if he was also trying it with his 2pairs. I called because I thought any 2pair hands would be weak and I could avoid paying off any draws. And I has Top Pair! Pot ~$900
The Turn:
8c Good for me. I has 2 pair now. And no draws have hit.
Again it checks to me. I didn't want to give any free draws to MP so I bet $500.
MP calls and HJ also calls. I was getting a good idea that MP was 2pair weaker than me and the HJ was drawing. I should have bet bigger but I was still confident of getting value from the 2pair and being able to avoid paying any mad draws. Pot ~2400
River: 9s
Great. No draws hit. Again checked to me, so I throw out a bet I want called, $1000. Maybe a bit small but I did want to get paid off by MP's weaker 2pair.
Sure enough, some tanking then he called. HJ mucked (which was a good sign that he'd missed - also he shared later that he was straight drawing).
I showed my 2pair and MP also showed his A6 before mucking. Great.

The table makeup had changed. The colluding couple from before had been reseated at our table along with a strong Korean. It was getting late so I took the opportunity to leave but not before warning my table buddy of the previous collusion hand.

Result for the day: +2.7k HKD
Total Bankroll: 39.3k HKD

Nice read. I am a bit shocked at that blatant collusion bit. The floor was completely in the wrong for not taking some form of action. At least ask the dealer to explain the situation and then act accordingly.

I liked your river bet on the A8o hand. I think you could have probably have bet a tad more, say 1600 and the weaker 2 pair would have followed, but there is nothing wrong with playing it on the safe side to ensure he calls. Keep it up

Re Collusion.
Some of the newer players from the Mainland/Taiwan thinks collusion is a legitimate strategy and don't know its a form of cheating. They just need to be educated.
Ofcos some do know its a get-rich-quick scheme.

Ok, I am sorry... I don't care if you are new to the game or not, it is common-freaking-sense. How could anyone logically think that it would be ok to team play at a poker table?

I mean, yes, I realize it is paramount that the casino strictly enforces the rules and prevent collusion from happening, but people saying they are new to the game and didn't know it wasn't ok to work together against other players is a lame excuse and unacceptable. If they took two seconds to think it through they would see why it would be prohibited.

sex, please don't think I am directing any frustration at you, but rather at the idea that people would play the rookie card in this situation.

Don't worry...I know you not directing that at me.

Yes, some of their thinking is a little strange. But they come from a society thats rampant with graft/back-handers/nepotism etc they think this is normal. They will argue with you collusion in Vegas is also rampant. By the same token they think football matches in England/Spain etc are all fixed.
Its just ingrained in their psych. So some do think collusion in poker is a legitimate strategy.

Yeah, it is a very culturally based idea that winning justifies any wrongdoing. It's kind of ingrained from being exposed to so much corruption that it just becomes normal. I understand it but still hate it.

I'm not suggesting that Hard Rock has any major problems with collusion compared to other Macau poker rooms, probably the opposite due to hosting more international players. It was just one situation that was badly dealt with. I took it a bit further today, hopefully these situations will be dealt with better. Basically it's up to players to protect themselves, even at Wynn and Grand Lisboa I don't believe the staff has got the aptitude to spot a colluding team with any sort of sophistication. And it only takes one situation every once in a while to profit. It sucks that you have to look out for this sort of thing as well as try to play good poker.

Value betting the river is something I've been trying hard to bring into my game. I've been listening to the DuecesCracked podcast and he goes on and on about how most live players are "Super Showdown Monkeys" who will check the river just to get to showdown. So I've been trying very hard to identify spots where I'm pretty sure I'm ahead and throw in a river bet.
Most of the time, the river check is to avoid getting raised and having to fold a reasonable hand. So far this hasn't happened to me, I just hope I can find a fold when it does.
The other risk is valuebetting the worst hand - valuetowning myself. This has happened a few times, in fact I did it yesterday. But I think that on the whole, I'm doing better putting in thinner bets on the river. Nothing super thin yet but I'm sure that'll come.

7th November

Sunday afternoon. I wandered around the APT setup before starting play. The tournament area is miles away from the poker lounge and was surprisingly underutilised. There was 2 tables for the Main event day 1a and a couple of tables for the Ladies event. I've never found it a lot of fun watching tournaments and it reminded me of being in "gainful employment" so I went up to the poker room.
There was 3 tables of 10/25, a 25/50 and they were trying to get a 100/200 up and going. Eventually they scaled it back to 50/100 and got it up and running.

I sat at a 10/25 with a few regs and a few unknowns. I managed to play pretty bad to start with but eventually got AIPF with my AA vs KK. It's been a while since that happened, no surprises and I was up about 1k. Over the next two hours it turned a very very strong table. Everytime a player left, they were replaced by someone stronger. I dicked off a bit of money to a v. agressive type to my right and was a little bit steamy when I hit this hand:

Hand One:
I am cutoff with QJhearts. Effective stacks around 3.5k
I call the blind, Young chinese girl (immaculately dressed all in sky blue, including the hat and handbag!) has been raising quite a lot but showing down premiums is the button and raises to 125. One other caller and I call.

The Flop is J98 (2 spades). Pretty wet but I've still got top pair. The other caller checks to me, I lead 400, she calls and the other player folds out.

The Turn is a 9. I don't really think the 9 would hit any of her raising range but I've only got TPGK so I check. She bets 700.
Now this just became a great spot to fold. But I'm not going to let any little girl push me around (I'm am so stupid) so I instacall.

River is a 8. I check, she checks.
She opens KK and takes down the pot. Oh dear. Well at least she only bet once.


My steam had risen somewhat so I took a few rounds to calm down, folding everything. While I was folding, I took a look around the table and noticed just how strong it was. There wasn't any player that I felt I had a huge skill advantage on and a couple that I felt were distinctly stronger than me. The floor was trying to start up a new 10/25 so I asked for a transfer straight away.

The new table was a lot better. There was a couple of regs that I'd played with before (ok but not super solid players), one young guy that I'd picked as scared money last time I played and the curly haired guy from yesterday (Mexican not middle eastern).
But then the worst thing happened, the Ultrafish sat down and wanted to gamble with me. I was already stuck nearly 2.5k and not in the mood for variance. But I played a couple of hands with him, not winning any and donating about 700 to my future earnings fund. As soon as he left, I rebought to full and started to get serious.

I spent the next two hours playing very good poker. Sometimes everything just goes right for a change. The villains called when I wanted a call, folded when I wanted a fold, just a great run. I didn't play perfectly but I really feel good thinking about my play. Except for one hand where I went to valuetown,

Hand Two:
KQo BB
A couple of limpers then the Cutoff (a strong player who told me he's an online NL100 reg) raises to $200. The button called, I did too and all others folded. Pot around 675

The flop: Q42r. Pretty dry, I think. I check, he bets 400. The button folds and I call.
The turn is another 4. Surely that can't help him - I'm thinking he might have JJ-77, some middling pair that I'll get a bet out of on the river. We go check/check.
The river is a blank 3. The pot's around 1400, I think I've got the best hand so I lead 700. He doesn't think for long before calling. I show KQ and he flips over AQ. Nice hand from him I think, I wonder if he read me for the Q or not.


A few hands later, I get a nice hand in. My flop c/r bluff pulls it's gutshot on the turn and I get all the maney back from that hand plus a little more. A couple of hands later, I raise a gutshot draw on the turn (q9) when the board is JJ87 and my villain shows AA before folding, WTF?

And a while later I'm hitting my time limit and thinking about "just one more round" when this rare gem occurs:

Hand Three:
I am BB with KK.
Four limpers, then I raise to 150 and one of them follows, a young local player that I've seen before. I originally picked him for scared money but I have been reassessing today and think he's just a normal TAG player. Not super strong but not super weak either. Pot around $375 and effective stacks are around 4k

The flop is rubbish, 943r. I'm pretty sure that won't have hit him so I lead out 400, expecting to just take the pot down. Surprise, he calls. I look at him and he's focused strongly on the hand. He definitely has some cards he likes. I get that feeling that he might have a set and raise on the turn, or maybe an overpair. Pot ~1200

The turn is a J. Well, I'll find out here if he's playing a standard line with a set. Not a lot of draws out there so I bet just over 1/2 pot $700, thinking I'll be able to fold to aggression here but still get value for TT+ or even AJ (but i think AJ folds flop). He tanks a little but calls. Now I'm pretty sure he's got TT or QQ, possibly some weird 2pair combo or I'm well behind a unusually played set. Pot ~2600

The river is an irrelevant 6. I consider checking to see showdown but remember that I don't want to be a showdown monkey. I'm really sure I'm ahead here and I really want a call. I throw out a weak bet of $1k, which I now think is too small. He has about 2600 behind, I really should have made it $1500 and got ready to call a ship. He really tanks hard, getting his money ready for a shove, counting out the call, moving it back and forth, must be a tough spot. Then he starts talking "Have you got aces or kings? Or a set of Jacks?". I started to feel really confident at that point, he'd left out Queens which told me exactly what he had. I was deep into staring at the table, with the odd glance at him - I try to mix up the two so as to not look like I'm staring him down or trying to hide.
Eventually he called, showed his queens and I took down a pot. I was very very happy with this hand. It's not often you get 3 streets of value with an overpair but I'd done it. My betsizing could have been better on the turn so as to provoke a river shove but I'd still won a sizey pot.

I played another orbit before racking up and going home. I wasn't ahead by much but I'd won back all my money and played two hours of v/ good poker.

Result for the day: +$500 HKD
Total Bankroll: $39.8 HKD

This can do wonders for your confidence at the table as I am sure you well know.

I think hand 2 is somewhat standard, yet interesting as I also often find myself in such a spot. Whether the villian did it intentionally or not, checking behind on the turn when the board paired was a very smart play. It would be hard for me to assign him AQ at that point. I think, that most players sporting AQ in that situation would have value bet the turn in hopes of extracting more money. As a result, I can't blame you for your half pot sized bet come the bricked river. FWIW, I think it was well played given the circumstances.

Against someone you consider "strong", playing KQo to a preflop raise is probably not very +EV in the long run. It's like KJ, has reverse implied odds.

A bit results oriented here aren't we? You first say you would shove to aggression but after seeing results, get greedy and want to bet more on turn LOL.

Nice recaps, wishing you luck versus all the tournament players in town these 2 weeks. Definitely wish I had the time to come over for a day.