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Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream

08-11-2022 , 07:13 AM
you lost 75 stacks in 50k hands is absolute sick
allmost allways have to move down to plo 50 or so otherwise good luck

what about reading books or other stuff like solvers?
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-11-2022 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnoxKnoxJoke
Hand 46 -

Bottom set is better in these types of spots generally. Because When a bunch of money goes in with middle set on the flop, you are more likely to see top set compared to when you have bottom set, and you’ll see some more top 2.

If you look in some similar spots in vision or whatever, you see bottom set reraising much more and middle set doing a lot of calling.

This is different to how you value sets on flush / straight boards, where you start to fold more bottom set with no blockers because you fill up to worse boats and as a result have poor implied odds.

If the hand was 4 ways it’s ok to bet fold flop

I like peeling flop in this hand with 2bdfd and just fold turn.
that makes sense. I guess bottom set unblocks more 2 pair hands against villain. and middle set is less likely to see top and bottom pair on most boards.

unfortunately my Vision sub has ended. not sure if I'll renew or just start slogging through Monker.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-11-2022 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubbb
you lost 75 stacks in 50k hands is absolute sick
allmost allways have to move down to plo 50 or so otherwise good luck

what about reading books or other stuff like solvers?
moving down sounds boring! I'd rather lose thousands of dollars.

I've gone through upswing's APLOM course which is awesome. it's not 100% exhaustive on every spot, but I'm still getting a ton of value out of it. especially the second time through. I also watch a lot of PhilGOATfond's videos which have been great too

Solvers are ok but probably do more harm than good for most people. I'm maybe on the cusp of getting value, but idk maybe I'm full of ****

Last edited by grass elephant; 08-11-2022 at 02:52 PM.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-12-2022 , 10:12 AM
Hand 44 - I agree this is a low frequency cbet board for the OOP player, particularly vs a limping range. We are at a massive polarity and positional disadvantage. That said, we still need to retain a high x/r percentage, as our range still has a lot of equity and we must deter IP from betting relentlessly. Your hand in particular is one of best high equity hands you will have in this board. I would think this is a high frequency x/r blocking IP made hand continuing range with the 9 and also his continuing range with the QJT draws. The clubs backdoor equity is also a positive.

Given we want to maintain a higher x/r percantege, the higher x/r size is also not helping us accomplish that goal. Raise smaller and wider.

Exploitatively speaking, if player is a very loose passive fish, x/c might be indeed the best line we can take.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-12-2022 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerSect
Hand 44 - I agree this is a low frequency cbet board for the OOP player, particularly vs a limping range. We are at a massive polarity and positional disadvantage. That said, we still need to retain a high x/r percentage, as our range still has a lot of equity and we must deter IP from betting relentlessly. Your hand in particular is one of best high equity hands you will have in this board. I would think this is a high frequency x/r blocking IP made hand continuing range with the 9 and also his continuing range with the QJT draws. The clubs backdoor equity is also a positive.

Given we want to maintain a higher x/r percantege, the higher x/r size is also not helping us accomplish that goal. Raise smaller and wider.

Exploitatively speaking, if player is a very loose passive fish, x/c might be indeed the best line we can take.

agree with all of this. imo against someone who is open limping we should definitely be looking for exploits and no trying to hit our 17% x/r % or whatever is GTO

one thing i don't do enough of , and i'm snot even 50% clear how to approach it, is to raise for <POT. i understand why we'd want to do it, for reasons you mentioned, and also in some value raise situations. but otherwise feel a little lost
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-12-2022 , 12:06 PM
well this has been absolutely painful:



red line still ****... can't tell if it's falling faster or slower than usual.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-14-2022 , 07:29 PM
looks like maybe you need to play a tighter range and bluff more. But again its just a graph I would have to go through your hands. Not saying to be a nit or be super lag but if your red line is falling that far it looks like you might be a little to much on the passive side. If you are afraid to run a big bluff move down in stakes.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-14-2022 , 08:21 PM
Imo don’t worry abt red line, nothing wrong with maximizing blue line in the right environments
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-18-2022 , 11:26 AM
i don't think a red line is necessarily something to lose sleep over. there's definitely winning strategies that don't involve a sick red line. However, there's a ton of money to be won in non-SD pots. it's foolish to neglect those spots
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-18-2022 , 11:43 AM
i've been getting absolutely slaughtered since i posted my mini-heater. serves me right i guess. in a couple of my last sessions the dark thoughts of taking the roll to 10/20 and just torching it started trickling in. nasty thoughts to have. i've prided myself on not doing that anymore. and haven't done something like that in 10+ years. fortunately i didn't do that this time. but i did take a few days off, stopped looking at my phone as much before bed, went to bed earlier, and got more and better sleep than i have recently.

i feel a lot better now, way more rested. the future isn't gloomy and i'm no longer convinced i'm the most unlucky person in the world. it's absolutely wild how something like a few hours sleep over a couple of weeks can be the difference between a resilient and strong state of mind and a sad, dismal, and overall miserably depressed outlook. in that ladder state every minor inconvenience is now a major one. every minor setback is now a complete reset. not good.

these days i'm a lot better at shortening those depressive cycles. definitely not dumb enough to convince myself they don't exist anymore or that i'm cured.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-18-2022 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grass elephant
i've been getting absolutely slaughtered since i posted my mini-heater. serves me right i guess. in a couple of my last sessions the dark thoughts of taking the roll to 10/20 and just torching it started trickling in. nasty thoughts to have. i've prided myself on not doing that anymore. and haven't done something like that in 10+ years. fortunately i didn't do that this time. but i did take a few days off, stopped looking at my phone as much before bed, went to bed earlier, and got more and better sleep than i have recently.

i feel a lot better now, way more rested. the future isn't gloomy and i'm no longer convinced i'm the most unlucky person in the world. it's absolutely wild how something like a few hours sleep over a couple of weeks can be the difference between a resilient and strong state of mind and a sad, dismal, and overall miserably depressed outlook. in that ladder state every minor inconvenience is now a major one. every minor setback is now a complete reset. not good.

these days i'm a lot better at shortening those depressive cycles. definitely not dumb enough to convince myself they don't exist anymore or that i'm cured.
Thats a gread idea to do it x) everyone did it sometimes though x) finishing off the roll is something i did in the past alot. In someway it is a short cut to resolve downswings. x)
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-19-2022 , 05:28 AM
Hey

I finally found ur blog as well. Gonna be interesting to follow. GL at the tables
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-21-2022 , 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripps
Hey

I finally found ur blog as well. Gonna be interesting to follow. GL at the tables
thanks for dropping by.

next stop: the moon!
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-21-2022 , 07:06 PM
narrator: he's still not at the moon



god this ****ing sucks. the suck isn't even remotely about the money. the shitty ****ing part about this is applying yourself to something, fully committing, studying , feeling like you're improving, and yet still getting ass ****ed like a virgin in heaven. i'm probably getting more ****ed than when i sucked even more than i do now.

probably time for another few day's break.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-21-2022 , 08:24 PM
seems like you are just break even with rake paid. for an recrational player not a fish getting enough h to play for that monies. x)
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-26-2022 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubbb
Thats a gread idea to do it x) everyone did it sometimes though x) finishing off the roll is something i did in the past alot. In someway it is a short cut to resolve downswings. x)
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
08-28-2022 , 10:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grass elephant
Lmao
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
09-30-2022 , 08:47 PM
September Life and poker

Life
I don’t talk too much about my life in here but I need to vent about the last 3 months as it’s been more than a little crazy since my last update. I had to go home and take care of my Mom due to some absolute batshit insanity that I couldn’t even make up if I tried. I took a week off of work and played some poker but mostly just ran errands for her.

Long story short my Dad kind of lost his mind: in a matter of a month he totaled 2 automobiles, was found drowned at the bottom of a lake, brought back to life via mouth to mouth, yelled in the face of a cop not 30 minutes after being resuscitated, and then filed for divorce with my Mom. My mom had already moved out during the lead up to all of the episodes I just shared, so that’s some silver lining. Afterwards we were able to get him Marchman acted, which is basically the same thing as the Baker act but for substance abuse (“mandatory” 72 hrs in a mental health facility), but then he got out within 6 hours because he knows how to game the system. Holy **** can’t believe I’m typing that out. You’d think I made it up but the details I’m leaving out are even more crazy.

Anywho, with that as my life backdrop, and thoughts of marriage with my long-term girlfriend, plus work, and plus trying to become the best PLO player in the world, something's got to give. I haven’t lost it yet but oh boy I’ve had some sad days.


Poker
August really sucked for me poker wise. Between Aug-Sep I was more or less breakeven over 17k hands. Not a huge sample, but definitely a ton of opportunities to improve. I didn’t study much this month outside of a couple HH reviews and watching some APLOM training videos. My August results are pretty well summed up in the screenshot above.

Fortunately, September seemed to go in the opposite direction than August. Somehow in September I managed to play around 29 hours or so, which didn’t even feel like I was trying. I’m planning on putting a session in after I do this review if there’s any gas left in the tank. My redline for this month was down a little bit but FLAT after. It stopped going down!! This is huge for me, definitely something I've been working on, so glad to see some flatlining there. Still a ton more work to do, which is probably going to be the case forever and always, but that’s poker for ya.



I don’t think I’m going to set any big goals for October, but i’ll still set some modest ones to try and keep myself accountable. I’m probably going to be traveling a bit, and work does not seem like it’s going to chill out anytime soon.

Anywho, here’s some HH:

hand 48

Spoiler:
This hand was just sitting in my ‘to be reviewed pile from July’ so I don’t remember anything about it. I’m guessing i can find a raise on flop or turn and either would be fine. I probably got spooked on the T turn now the nuts have changed, but still think we can raise. I don’t think we should ever be folding river


Hand 49

Spoiler:
My question here is should we go for an X/R on the turn now that we have the miracle nuts and 2x flush draws. Betting can’t be bad like ever, but i wonder if this is a good spot to X/R. It might not be as this is probably a board the 3!'er should give up with some healthy frequency. We also don't block any pairs which i think lends to X in this spot


Hand 50 🎉

Spoiler:
this was an interesting spot where I took the fold option. Looking back this might be a good candidate for a flop raise, given top pair and oesd on rainbow board. It didn’t seem like villain was going to fold to my aggression, based on whatever dumb thing I was telling myself in-game. We’ve got decent card removal, and the 8 brings a new nuts which we have half of the blockers to. Man typing it out makes it feel like an easy raise or even a call. In-game i told myself i’d raise if i had 1 heart in my hand to remove some of the hands he peels with. Problems i found with Calling: we still have to fold to further aggression on brick rivers, and sometimes we end up with the idiot straight against a better one


Hand 51

Spoiler:
i would have liked to see a stab on the turn, mostly because both players checked twice and we have bad-ok equity going to the river. River is an interesting spot to raise if we think villain could fold a straight. I might be getting carried away as they could have missed a turn XR some healthy percentage of the time


Hand 52

Spoiler:
felt like a spot we could bet flop smallish and get some folds. Turn also feels like a decent spot for a smallish bet. Hindsight looking at the river it really feels like we should be calling some healthy % of the time



Hand 53

Spoiler:
this river should probably be a check to maybe x/c against the bricked FD, which we don’t have any blockers. Hard to imagine he has better hands, as what random 3’s does he have? Maybe some random 3x with a FD. my turn sizing should be a little bit smaller, and the river sizing should be a lot smaller, at most B50


Hand 54

Spoiler:
i kind of like how i played this spot. Flat keeps in all of P4’s worse draws, but unsure if there’s a chance to raise the flop here. not 100% sure what a raise accomplishes. I guess sometimes worse draws will continue, but seems thin esp with the Kc out there. Turn isn’t that interesting, never folding


Hand 55

Spoiler:
i like the way i played this one, especially now that it’s headsup. Betting into this many people with this hand seems real meh
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
09-30-2022 , 08:57 PM
October Goals

Study:
  • Based on how i’m feeling, go through all of 1 section, either flop, turn, or river in APLOM. But at least one of these sections.
  • Post at least 10 hands in this thread
  • Stretch goal to post 20 hands in this thread

Play:
  • 20 hours minimum
  • Journal after 100% of my sessions. I’ve been listening to a lot of the Mechanics of Poker podcast (really great, cannot recommend enough) and journaling comes up a lot. Maybe I’ll use this as a forum for my journal. Either way I think journaling will be a great way to hold myself accountable, especially with my emotions.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
10-15-2022 , 01:09 PM
October 2022 Midpoint Update

October is going pretty well, but I'm not going to post a graph because of superlolstition. I’ve played about 6k hands thanks to getting covid about 9 days ago. It was relatively mild except for a few days where it felt like a solid cold. Overall COVID made for a great excuse to stay inside and play poker. I’m winning money this month so far, but I think my biggest win is the mental game.

Over the last couple of years I’ve made constant improvement in my mental game, but I can really feel it this month. One example: a lot of my sessions start off in the red, and I definitely feel the frustration, but I've gotten a lot better about feeling it, and letting it go. I’ve always been good about feeling the onset of frustration, as it leads to the rage, and then of course just let it take control and ruin my session/day/week/month. Before, I would get stuck in the darkness and wallow in the rage. I would lose sight of up and down, left and right, and just spin uncontrollably. I’d end up spinning and smashing into everything, literally and figuratively. Whereas now I have some conscious awareness of it passing. I know what the rage passing feels like. That conscious awareness of the passing rage helps keep me focused. I know what ‘winning’ against my emotions feels like. Dare I say this part has actually gotten easier.

Anywho, onto some hands:

Hand 56

Spoiler:
this was a weird one. 3bet preflop probably isn’t the worst thing in the world. I would have liked to have thought he was relatively capped after his flop check, but people do weird things sometimes.I might find a raise if I wasn’t blocking the hell out of T9. But almost no one is raising with a straight on a paired board, like ever. Honestly this might just be a bet/fold on the river against most of the nits at these stakes


Hand 57

Spoiler:
clear fold on the turn. Turn bet might be a little bit too thin,and bet sizing could be a little bit smaller. But I've been trying to find some thinner value spot, and this felt like a good candidate. That said vill def has a ton of QQxx, and we block the As so that’s a lot fewer hands that he can call turn with


Hand 58

Spoiler:
Against this particular opponent I think this is an example of a bad river call, but for the right reasons. We have to bluffcatch some of the time against some villains. We also block a medium diamond. But we’ve got the low end of the straight, and our diamond ultimately kind of sucks. Flop bet is ok, as we unblock some of the pairs and have some equity against better hands with the set. That said that’s one fewer hand we’re ahead of (btm set).



Hand 59

Spoiler:
This was particularly weird. We flop okish but don’t have any clubs. Maybe pair, oesd, and bdfd makes this a bet but i don’t really want to bet/fold. So feels like a good enough hand to bet, but not good enough to bet/call. Turn is a little weird. I’m definitely folding most rivers to further aggression, but it feels like a similar situation on the flop. I also don’t expect to get over buffed on the river, so I’m ok making a thinnish turn call.


Hand 60

Spoiler:
Feels like we’re overplaying our hand, but x/f turn felt dumb too. I don’t expect to get called and be ahead here that often. I guess blocking the Ac removes some of villain’s calling range, but feels like we’re also ok winning the pot outright. My turn B100 kind of removes any chance that a hand we’re ahead of calls.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
10-24-2022 , 03:56 PM
Random thoughts

I’ve played over 11k hands this month, which is about 50 hours of 4 tabling. And there’s still a week or so left. That’s insane to me, because I really don’t feel tired from poker and still get excited to play. Thanks again, COVID. Pretty sure I could get to 60 hours keeping it casual and could hit 80 hours if I really pounded it.

Even though I’m still stoked to start a session, I definitely feel some fatigue from playing so much. One thing that stands out is that I can feel some of the positive variance starting to affect my mindset, kind of weighing on me. That winning variance where you’re lucky enough to win over a decent sample, and then you start to “expect” to win. It’s always really important to keep that expectation in check, because poker is always waiting to smash you in the face and take you down a peg or 6.

Reflecting on my poker history, some of my monumental downswings and implosions have come from letting this expectation to win run wild, getting validated in the short term, and then encountering the all too familiar reality of a downswing and eventually letting it destroy my world. Not healthy. But this self awareness and mental strength that I’ve cultivated these past few years is my antidote.

Speaking of health. I’m a daily smoker of the finer herb (weed). I was traveling earlier this month and life got busy and I didn’t smoke for a few days before the trip, and didn’t bring any with me. I had been thinking of taking a tolerance break for a while, and this was a good excuse. I ended up not smoking for 17 days, and besides some trouble sleeping/staying asleep, it was overall fine. I actually started getting “high” on being sober. It’s definitely a different experience when you’re normally stoned all the time. Fortunately for me it was really fun. When I got back home I kept it up. I smoked once but ended up coughing up a lung (recovering from COVID) so I decided to keep the sobriety thing going. It’s been fun figuring out and feeling life as it comes without being stoned. Definitely not going to quit long term, but I think I found a new appreciation for sobriety.

Also health related I decided to start taking some vitamins/supplements. I’ve always been skeptical of this domain, but I really suck at eating a balanced diet, so my hope is these can help make up for some stuff I’ve been missing out on. Here’s a list of what I’ve started taking:

  • Magnesium powder
  • St. John's Wort
  • Vitamin D-3 1000 IU
  • Calcium Citrate
  • Methyl B-12
  • Vitamin D-3 & K-2

I think it might be making a difference? No way of really knowing. And obviously I’m biased because I’m taking them. But I do feel slightly better than normal. Taking a big break from weed is probably also helping.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
10-31-2022 , 12:39 PM
October 2022 Wrap up







Summary
I played a metric ****ton of poker this month. 90% or so of my sessions were high quality, focused sessions, basically A-game, or whatever my A-game is at this point in time. As always and forever, my A-game needs a lot of work, but I’m proud I was able to maintain it for so long. The last few sessions were a lot harder to maintain A-game and stay focused. I definitely had a few hands that were tilt inspired. I could have handled those sessions a little bit better, as I was already playing my B/C game in those sessions. The last few sessions I was definitely feeling the fatigue setting in, and it was much more difficult to stay mindful and focused.

I’m still about 40 buyins until I get completely out of the hole, but I’m more convinced than ever that I’m going to do it. Maybe even this year. The system I’m building is working. There is significant progress compared to where I began.

I’m going to try and spend the next few days studying and reviewing hands before I start grinding again. I also need to catch up on my irl job.

October Goals Recap
Quote:

Study:
  • Based on how i’m feeling, go through all of 1 section, either flop, turn, or river in APLOM. But at least one of these sections.
  • Post at least 10 hands in this thread
  • Stretch goal to post 20 hands in this thread

Play:
  • 20 hours minimum
  • Journal after 100% of my sessions. I’ve been listening to a lot of the Mechanics of Poker podcast (really great, cannot recommend enough) and journaling comes up a lot. Maybe I’ll use this as a forum for my journal. Either way I think journaling will be a great way to hold myself accountable, especially with my emotions.
On the study side, I read through all of my notes for 3bet pots, and feel satisfied on achieving that goal. It definitely helped keep me focused and zero’d on a more effective strategy this month. Still a ton more I can take away from APLOM so I need to keep at it. It would probably be a good idea to get through the rest of it for a second time before the year is over.

I only posted 5 hands this month. Still have a few hours so maybe I’ll come back tonight and finish out strong.

On the play side, absolutely smashed the 20 hour minimum and hit around 57 hours.

Definitely didn’t come close to journaling after every session, but I did journal 3 times throughout the month, which is a lot more than most other months. It helped a ton. The main value I got out of it was releasing everything that was going on in my head. Once it was written down I was able to let go completely, and reflect on the words I put to paper. Definitely want to make journaling more of a habit.

Without further ado, numbers and giraffes:





Yay I finally beat the rake Still getting smashed on the redline. Lots more to improve there. I’m kind of at a loss for what I’m missing here, I probably need to get more aggressive in spots where I don’t have the perfect/good enough blockers, but instead just have the absolute range advantage. Tightening up in general, and especially vs 3bets might help as well.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
10-31-2022 , 04:00 PM
That’s a huge confidence booster! Congrats!

Also regarding redline - if your opponents don’t fold enough, don’t worry about redline! Maybe check how often you’re winning at showdown.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
10-31-2022 , 11:25 PM
Here's the last 5 of my October goal:

Hand 61

Spoiler:
I kind of liked this triple barrel because everything missed, and it feels like we’ll see some aggression from hands that call a river bet before we get to the river. That said the only thing we block are all of the draws that missed, and unblock all of the hands that might find a call. So it’s really not a great hand to do this with


Hand 62

Spoiler:
this was real weird for me. I think flop can easily, maybe even should be a check most of the time. Turn i think we probably burn $ by shoving. River we should probably be shoving even though it feels like we don’t have any fold equity, we instead look a lot like AAddxx. I like river shove for that reason, and because we block lots of sets


Hand 63

Spoiler:
here’s me trying to win more non SD. we block the straights. I wonder if we should be raise/re-raising ever here. Probably spew or would need to be playing live to make that kind of bluff


Hand 64

Spoiler:
this seems like a decent spot for a turn lead. Lots of hands we have that like that turn, we probably have range advantage as the OOP caller in 3bet pot. And we have 2 pair


Hand 65

Spoiler:
had a good month so i get to post a stupid ****ing bbv hand lol. This one was fun. Can’t wait for my turn.
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote
10-31-2022 , 11:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnoxKnoxJoke
That’s a huge confidence booster! Congrats!

Also regarding redline - if your opponents don’t fold enough, don’t worry about redline! Maybe check how often you’re winning at showdown.
ty ty ty!

i'm winning at showdown (blue line in the graph above). people definitely fold at these stakes, but maybe not as much, or in a lot of cases too much. just a matter of figuring everything out and clicking the right buttons. easy peazy!
Deeper and deeper: Down 75 buyins, still chasing the PLO dream Quote

      
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