Clicking buttons to m̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶o̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶m̶o̶n̶e̶y̶ be a very good player - NL2 to Sky
06-12-2018
, 12:20 PM
Hi 2p2ers
I am creating this thread to hold myself accountable/motivation to stick to my plans and feedback from other players.
In terms of my background, I am 31 and I have played live poker for almost 5 years without much success. I have played > 3500 hours of live NL in London/Vegas/Macau from £1/2 to £10/20 and nothing online
(all of that while having a full time IT job).
It has been extremely stressful 4 years of my life(probably some of my hair loss can be attributed to this, lol) due to juggling with work and poker and never really achieving any success in poker. I have now lost count of the
number of times I have failed miserably and got back up with stronger motivation (and failed again) ! I took two shots at quiting my job and becoming a full time pro, failed and got back to work.
I have never been a losing player but I havent made any profit that we could call even close to decent. So basically I have been a mediocre player struggling to make any profit in any games I ever played. It probably goes without saying, I have made all the mistakes most players make (or the mistakes that can be made) like tilt/BR management/bad game selection/not working on my game etc.
Over these years, I have eliminated all the above leaks as I can now play with pretty much no tilt and game select really well. The only thing thats now missing (I think) is a strong game plan in terms of strategy.
What I have concluded in all these years is the biggest leak in my improvement has always been not working on game 'enough'. I thought I was doing enough by random discussions with other good players about hands here and there and watching a few random videos but I now realise this was never going to make me a truly crushing player. What I needed was a lot of online experience and thorough/regular study of the game to achieve the success I wanted to achieve.
So I have now decided to basically quit live poker, pick one format of the game, i.e. NL cash and start from the bottom and do proper study of the game while gaining lots of practical experience by playing online while
not worrying about making any money. The focus needs to be on improving everyday and playing well. The plan is to basically 'out work' my competetion whichever games I play and we will see if this plan works out
The plan is to keep start with NL2 and move up the stakes as I build the roll for the next limit while utilising all the appropriate resources applicable to the stakes I am playing, RIO/2p2/Solvers/Coaching etc. Once I develop decent understanding of the game, I am leaving my long term plans open ended as I could keep playing online or come back to live with much stronger fundamentals.
For now, I will also keep playing some live PLO £2/5 on the side(as I have been making some decent progress there since I switched to PLO about 4 months ago) but my main focus is going to be online NLH.
Happy Crushing !
I am creating this thread to hold myself accountable/motivation to stick to my plans and feedback from other players.
In terms of my background, I am 31 and I have played live poker for almost 5 years without much success. I have played > 3500 hours of live NL in London/Vegas/Macau from £1/2 to £10/20 and nothing online
(all of that while having a full time IT job).
It has been extremely stressful 4 years of my life(probably some of my hair loss can be attributed to this, lol) due to juggling with work and poker and never really achieving any success in poker. I have now lost count of the
number of times I have failed miserably and got back up with stronger motivation (and failed again) ! I took two shots at quiting my job and becoming a full time pro, failed and got back to work.
I have never been a losing player but I havent made any profit that we could call even close to decent. So basically I have been a mediocre player struggling to make any profit in any games I ever played. It probably goes without saying, I have made all the mistakes most players make (or the mistakes that can be made) like tilt/BR management/bad game selection/not working on my game etc.
Over these years, I have eliminated all the above leaks as I can now play with pretty much no tilt and game select really well. The only thing thats now missing (I think) is a strong game plan in terms of strategy.
What I have concluded in all these years is the biggest leak in my improvement has always been not working on game 'enough'. I thought I was doing enough by random discussions with other good players about hands here and there and watching a few random videos but I now realise this was never going to make me a truly crushing player. What I needed was a lot of online experience and thorough/regular study of the game to achieve the success I wanted to achieve.
So I have now decided to basically quit live poker, pick one format of the game, i.e. NL cash and start from the bottom and do proper study of the game while gaining lots of practical experience by playing online while
not worrying about making any money. The focus needs to be on improving everyday and playing well. The plan is to basically 'out work' my competetion whichever games I play and we will see if this plan works out
The plan is to keep start with NL2 and move up the stakes as I build the roll for the next limit while utilising all the appropriate resources applicable to the stakes I am playing, RIO/2p2/Solvers/Coaching etc. Once I develop decent understanding of the game, I am leaving my long term plans open ended as I could keep playing online or come back to live with much stronger fundamentals.
For now, I will also keep playing some live PLO £2/5 on the side(as I have been making some decent progress there since I switched to PLO about 4 months ago) but my main focus is going to be online NLH.
Happy Crushing !
06-13-2018
, 05:34 PM
11-25-2018
, 06:11 PM
Right so I haven't disappeared, I have mainly been playing live £2/5 PLO until about a month ago and have had some success.
About 6 weeks ago, I quit playing live as planned and started NL2, had some decent results over 25k hands (I know its not a huge sample) and then jumped to NL5 which hasnt been going well so far.
So I am now looking for a good coach who can review my db and guide me where I am leaking money/need improvement.
I think my bb is the biggest area where I need improvement as I believe a reasonble bb/100 is -40 instead of -65 that I have.
While I am waiting to find a new coach, I am started my own digging into the database for leaks in bb play.
It seems like I have to focus on calling raises from bb as I have felt I am calling from bb with all sorts of hands and not knowing what to do on the flop and end up check folding.
The plan is to play+study ~100 hours a month for now and we will see how it goes. I am going to try and post updates once or twice a month and focus on my approach to study and improvement of the game in general rather than posting individual hands and hopefully get some feedback from other experienced members of this community as well.
About 6 weeks ago, I quit playing live as planned and started NL2, had some decent results over 25k hands (I know its not a huge sample) and then jumped to NL5 which hasnt been going well so far.
So I am now looking for a good coach who can review my db and guide me where I am leaking money/need improvement.
I think my bb is the biggest area where I need improvement as I believe a reasonble bb/100 is -40 instead of -65 that I have.
While I am waiting to find a new coach, I am started my own digging into the database for leaks in bb play.
It seems like I have to focus on calling raises from bb as I have felt I am calling from bb with all sorts of hands and not knowing what to do on the flop and end up check folding.
The plan is to play+study ~100 hours a month for now and we will see how it goes. I am going to try and post updates once or twice a month and focus on my approach to study and improvement of the game in general rather than posting individual hands and hopefully get some feedback from other experienced members of this community as well.
11-30-2018
, 03:07 PM
In terms of learning, yes RIO is probably the undisputed king of poker learning when it comes to watching videos but having a really good coach goes a long way when it comes to accelerated learning.
Constant feedback is really important not just for our game analysis but also how we approach study of the game. The study needs to be well structured where we putting in more emphasis in areas of the game that are more important. This is something that will only come from someone who is
* good at the game himself
* and is good at teaching the skills to others
From live to online, its obviously a huge difference, you can play lots of hands and learn much quicker than live. But online is very anti social, if you are a serious online player then you basically lock yourself in your home and clicking buttons and studying is your bottom line So i am trying to get used to this.
I think I prefer zoom tables more as I really do like the speed.
Constant feedback is really important not just for our game analysis but also how we approach study of the game. The study needs to be well structured where we putting in more emphasis in areas of the game that are more important. This is something that will only come from someone who is
* good at the game himself
* and is good at teaching the skills to others
From live to online, its obviously a huge difference, you can play lots of hands and learn much quicker than live. But online is very anti social, if you are a serious online player then you basically lock yourself in your home and clicking buttons and studying is your bottom line
So i am trying to get used to this.I think I prefer zoom tables more as I really do like the speed.
01-31-2019
, 11:42 AM
Right, the start of the new year has treated me well.
Since the last update, I got a coaching from a RIO essential coach and my game took a very positive turn.
Here are the results since the coaching started (Dec18 + Jan19)
Hopefully if things keep going well for some more time, I am going to move up to 25z.
This month, I played about 90 hours and studied 25 hours, hopefully looking to make it better in favor of studying more.
So obviously, very happy with the my progress so far, hopefully I can keep the momentum going.
Since the last update, I got a coaching from a RIO essential coach and my game took a very positive turn.
Here are the results since the coaching started (Dec18 + Jan19)
Hopefully if things keep going well for some more time, I am going to move up to 25z.
This month, I played about 90 hours and studied 25 hours, hopefully looking to make it better in favor of studying more.
So obviously, very happy with the my progress so far, hopefully I can keep the momentum going.
04-02-2019
, 04:50 AM
Feb19 + Mar19 Update
In these 2 months, 60 hours of study and 130 hours of play, so volume-wise we are roughly on target.
I was hoping to move to 25z but hit a pretty brutal downswing, 25 BIs spanning across 65k hands but finally I have come out of it.
It has been a tough experience from mindset point of view and it was definitely a reality check as I underestimated the skill level required to beat 10z when I originally started to play online poker and when you are in a downswing so deep and that is never ending, you constantly question your ability to beat this game. So even though every now and then I do get upset, I do manage to keep level headed during play and don't effect my run effect too much on my play.
Also, the more I study and talk to my coach, the more I realize there is soooooooooo much I don't know about this game and that keeps me motivated.
One thing I have noticed that works for me, if I am running bad on a given day, I am not enjoying the grind and if it becomes too much of a problem, then I stop playing then the very next day, I am in there again with a completely different (and rational) mindset, no matter how upset was I with my game the previous day.
Although after so many years of playing poker, I know very well this is completely irrational of me to think that I am going to win every time I sit down to play poker but still these negative thoughts somehow creep in to my mind. Its not expected to win in every single session but why is that sometimes we get upset is beyond me.
I am amazed at how this game manages to get under your skin even though you know very well that you shouldn't react to these feelings. So I struggle to understand those people who say they are not effected by their results, maybe this is a recipe to be a great poker player. But I am glad I have mastered this skill enough that at least it doesn't effect my game and I can still think about every decision while being level headed even though I do feel pretty bad after the session is over. So this is a skill I am constantly working on and training my mind to behave well regardless of results.
Also, I think speaking to a really good coach is study process that is under-estimated generally. If someone who is a good player and a good coach, they can look at your game and point out the mistakes you are doing, that will shave a huge number of hours from your learning curve. After working with a number of coaches in the last year or so, I think if I had done this 5-6 years ago, my poker story would have been completely different. Anyways, either you win or learn
Another leak I had with my learning process was that I was always focusing (and talking to my fellow poker players) on the spots that don't occur very often. For example, we arrive in a really weird river spot that is probably never going to occur again (and the EV of two available actions was so close), we get upset because we lost in that spot and now we are really keen to talk to someone ASAP about that spot and then we will spend a long time talking/thinking about it. Its very inefficient use of player's study time compared to a spot that is occurring very often for example, we open in BU, BB calls, HU to flop, BB checks, what do we do here on different flops and what sizing we use in case we bet ? Very simple example but if studied a spot like this properly, it will make a huge difference to the game compared to something that happens so infrequently.
I think its important to constantly be aware of your strong and weak parts of game/mindset/learning process only then we can constantly improve.
Happy grinding
In these 2 months, 60 hours of study and 130 hours of play, so volume-wise we are roughly on target.
I was hoping to move to 25z but hit a pretty brutal downswing, 25 BIs spanning across 65k hands but finally I have come out of it.
It has been a tough experience from mindset point of view and it was definitely a reality check as I underestimated the skill level required to beat 10z when I originally started to play online poker and when you are in a downswing so deep and that is never ending, you constantly question your ability to beat this game. So even though every now and then I do get upset, I do manage to keep level headed during play and don't effect my run effect too much on my play.
Also, the more I study and talk to my coach, the more I realize there is soooooooooo much I don't know about this game and that keeps me motivated.
One thing I have noticed that works for me, if I am running bad on a given day, I am not enjoying the grind and if it becomes too much of a problem, then I stop playing then the very next day, I am in there again with a completely different (and rational) mindset, no matter how upset was I with my game the previous day.
Although after so many years of playing poker, I know very well this is completely irrational of me to think that I am going to win every time I sit down to play poker but still these negative thoughts somehow creep in to my mind. Its not expected to win in every single session but why is that sometimes we get upset is beyond me.
I am amazed at how this game manages to get under your skin even though you know very well that you shouldn't react to these feelings. So I struggle to understand those people who say they are not effected by their results, maybe this is a recipe to be a great poker player. But I am glad I have mastered this skill enough that at least it doesn't effect my game and I can still think about every decision while being level headed even though I do feel pretty bad after the session is over. So this is a skill I am constantly working on and training my mind to behave well regardless of results.
Also, I think speaking to a really good coach is study process that is under-estimated generally. If someone who is a good player and a good coach, they can look at your game and point out the mistakes you are doing, that will shave a huge number of hours from your learning curve. After working with a number of coaches in the last year or so, I think if I had done this 5-6 years ago, my poker story would have been completely different. Anyways, either you win or learn
Another leak I had with my learning process was that I was always focusing (and talking to my fellow poker players) on the spots that don't occur very often. For example, we arrive in a really weird river spot that is probably never going to occur again (and the EV of two available actions was so close), we get upset because we lost in that spot and now we are really keen to talk to someone ASAP about that spot and then we will spend a long time talking/thinking about it. Its very inefficient use of player's study time compared to a spot that is occurring very often for example, we open in BU, BB calls, HU to flop, BB checks, what do we do here on different flops and what sizing we use in case we bet ? Very simple example but if studied a spot like this properly, it will make a huge difference to the game compared to something that happens so infrequently.
I think its important to constantly be aware of your strong and weak parts of game/mindset/learning process only then we can constantly improve.
Happy grinding
