BadMo's getting out of $30k debt
03-18-2014
, 06:20 AM
There's no "trip report" on the origins of this debt. I might elaborate on it later, or never. Its not very interesting and some parts are cliché.
Wish me luck! 
Quote:
Challenge Start date: Mar 18, 2014
Challenge End date: asap...
Challenge End date: asap...
Quote:
Situation today, on Mar 18, 2014:
Debts:
- Credit Card #1: $3100 (30% interest)
- Credit Card #2: $6300 (20% interest)
- Credit Card #3: $15400 (20% interest)
- Personal debts: $5500 (no interest)
*Total: $30300
*Interest is rounded up
*All amounts are in CAD
Assets:
- Car: $2000
- Furniture, electronics and misc: $1000-$2000*
- Cash: $4300
*The initial value of the stuff is well over $25k. It depreciates in value so badly over time.
Monthly expenses:
- Rent: $1300
- Car insurance: $300
- Internet + TV + Phone: $160
- Hydro: $70
- Gas: $400
- Food and misc pocket expenses: $900
- Interest: $440
*Total: $3570
Debts:
- Credit Card #1: $3100 (30% interest)
- Credit Card #2: $6300 (20% interest)
- Credit Card #3: $15400 (20% interest)
- Personal debts: $5500 (no interest)
*Total: $30300
*Interest is rounded up
*All amounts are in CAD
Assets:
- Car: $2000
- Furniture, electronics and misc: $1000-$2000*
- Cash: $4300
*The initial value of the stuff is well over $25k. It depreciates in value so badly over time.
Monthly expenses:
- Rent: $1300
- Car insurance: $300
- Internet + TV + Phone: $160
- Hydro: $70
- Gas: $400
- Food and misc pocket expenses: $900
- Interest: $440
*Total: $3570
Quote:
Gameplan:
1) Decrease all expenses as possible. Drive less, spend less on misc (quit smoking dumbass), get a room-mate (I rent a 2 bedroom apartment, one bedroom is the "office", I can sacrifice it for an extra $700-$800 a month for now).
2) Talk to credit card companies, get breaks on interest payments for a month or two (was done before for CC#3, the other two won't do it).
3) Try to get a line of credit with a more reasonable interest rate.
4) Work hard, minimum "play" for now.
5) Have as little as possible of my own action in any poker activities. Preferably - be staked for the entire thing.
6) Altho hard to control, try to not have too many unexpected expenses for now, such as car breakdowns, medical (Oh Canada!), random parking/traffic tickets and so on.
1) Decrease all expenses as possible. Drive less, spend less on misc (quit smoking dumbass), get a room-mate (I rent a 2 bedroom apartment, one bedroom is the "office", I can sacrifice it for an extra $700-$800 a month for now).
2) Talk to credit card companies, get breaks on interest payments for a month or two (was done before for CC#3, the other two won't do it).
3) Try to get a line of credit with a more reasonable interest rate.
4) Work hard, minimum "play" for now.
5) Have as little as possible of my own action in any poker activities. Preferably - be staked for the entire thing.
6) Altho hard to control, try to not have too many unexpected expenses for now, such as car breakdowns, medical (Oh Canada!), random parking/traffic tickets and so on.
Last edited by BadMoFu; 03-18-2014 at 06:37 AM.
03-18-2014
, 07:52 AM
03-18-2014
, 08:00 AM
03-18-2014
, 05:21 PM
I will explain more on how this situation got to where it is. Taken out of context, with expenses so high and most debts being on high interest CC's - it does seem like its just a total lack of financial planning skills on my part (not untrue overall but there's more to it).
Quote:
Cliffs on poker story:
- I was doing well in poker "back in the day", I had a large liquid bankroll, large enough that I could easily afford these expenses for years to come even if I stopped winning.
- Exactly this happened, I stopped winning. The bankroll was exhausted over 3-4 years of no money coming in and money coming out.
- Over these years I have developed a number of bad habits and mental handicaps that made it less and less likely that I will ever turn things around (they were both the cause of the initial "downfall" and made worse by the process of the downfall itself). Depression, drinking problem, a pit addiction (while drinking). A total lack of ability to concentrate, even on small every day tasks. Lack of interest for social life, loss of libido, apathy (depression will do all these things to you). Disregard of physical health, chain-smoking with zero exercise, barely eating and horrific sleeping patterns. I went from being a self-made successful and respectable member of my social circle to a non-confident pitiful outcast, a depressed drunk, avoiding human contact...
- With an inability to concentrate on any task it was borderline impossible to start adjusting to having less money and approaching busto.
- In early 2013 I finally went from positive net-worth to a negative one. And the CC debts started accumulating. Despite all the handicaps I was still trying
to do something to get me started on a positive pattern. I was barely looking at poker any more as a way to do it, as I could just never win (try multi tabling today's opponents on Stars while you're drunk half the time, and a third of your IQ points are slashed away by depression, sprinkle degen & tilt patterns on top of that...).
- I started 4 different low-start-up service-based small business in 2013, all 4 were successful (as in, the 1-2 month start-up/research period showed the results that I needed it to show in order to proceed with the business fully and start making it into something that makes money in 6-12 month, something I could sell for low 6-figs in 24+ month). I have abandoned all 4 of them after the initial research/start up stage. Not due to any rational decision, just apathy...
- I was doing well in poker "back in the day", I had a large liquid bankroll, large enough that I could easily afford these expenses for years to come even if I stopped winning.
- Exactly this happened, I stopped winning. The bankroll was exhausted over 3-4 years of no money coming in and money coming out.
- Over these years I have developed a number of bad habits and mental handicaps that made it less and less likely that I will ever turn things around (they were both the cause of the initial "downfall" and made worse by the process of the downfall itself). Depression, drinking problem, a pit addiction (while drinking). A total lack of ability to concentrate, even on small every day tasks. Lack of interest for social life, loss of libido, apathy (depression will do all these things to you). Disregard of physical health, chain-smoking with zero exercise, barely eating and horrific sleeping patterns. I went from being a self-made successful and respectable member of my social circle to a non-confident pitiful outcast, a depressed drunk, avoiding human contact...
- With an inability to concentrate on any task it was borderline impossible to start adjusting to having less money and approaching busto.
- In early 2013 I finally went from positive net-worth to a negative one. And the CC debts started accumulating. Despite all the handicaps I was still trying
to do something to get me started on a positive pattern. I was barely looking at poker any more as a way to do it, as I could just never win (try multi tabling today's opponents on Stars while you're drunk half the time, and a third of your IQ points are slashed away by depression, sprinkle degen & tilt patterns on top of that...).
- I started 4 different low-start-up service-based small business in 2013, all 4 were successful (as in, the 1-2 month start-up/research period showed the results that I needed it to show in order to proceed with the business fully and start making it into something that makes money in 6-12 month, something I could sell for low 6-figs in 24+ month). I have abandoned all 4 of them after the initial research/start up stage. Not due to any rational decision, just apathy...
Quote:
Things that happened recently:
- End of Aug 2013 was the time when **** really hit the fan. By this time I had no assets that I could sell any more, I didn't even have a car. I was overdue on minimum payments on all the bills for a few month now (every morning I was paranoid to turn on the PC, expecting my internet provider to cut me off at any point). I was getting a dozen calls from collection agencies daily. The first of the month was 1 week away to pay rent and more minimum payments to accumulate. All the sources where I could borrow more money were now maxed out.
- In addition to that I had 2 weeks ago bit off a chunk of my tooth, and now the root canal was exposed, causing me quite a bit of pain. I needed almost $1500 to fix it.
- I scrambled everything I had at home, which was a collection of old Canadian bills (currency) I had in my drawer for years (not exactly rare collectables, but probably worth a bit more then face value). A little over $300. I exchanged it by face value and deposited it on Stars. I decided to play NL50 6-max. Having or not having that $300 at this point would have no difference whatsoever on my situation, but I could run it up and fix my situation if I try to concentrate as much as I can and run well at the start while I'm under rolled.
- That actually worked out, I got a break and ran above EV, 40 buy-ins above in fact, maybe the hottest EV run I ever had. I still wasn't playing well and didn't change anything in my life. I was beating the game for a very modest EV winrate. I made $3500 by the end of August ($2k above EV). At the beginning of September I cashed $2500 and paid rent, and a very small chunk of overdue bills. I left $1k on Stars to keep up the NL50 grind.
- I also borrowed some money from parents, $1400, for my root canal, and I fixed it. It was a huge relief.
- I kept playing NL50 in September, but was now running a lot below EV, about 35 buy-ins. By mid-month I was up almost $2000 in EV but less then $500 in actual money. I needed to win faster then that.
* Here is my graph for that grind:
- Then I decided to get staked. The results from NL50 were decent enough for me to get a deal, and I have created this stake-seeking topic in Marketplace:
Looking for 6-max SSNL staking
- I got a number of offers and eventually made a contract with someone for NL100.
- Though September and October I played a bunch of NL100, NL50 and NL200 under this stake. I made a profit on NL50, about broke even on NL100 and lost money on NL200. I was still not playing my best overall and running somewhat bad, especially in a few small shots on NL200. We eventually ended the deal.
- He later gave me another shot for NL100, where I lost money. He ended up being down on me overall.
- By this time, trough some cash-outs from Aug-Sept, and rakeback made since Aug, I have improved my money situation by about $4k.
- On October 29th I got drunk to a point where I lost all ability for rational though, and spewed away $5100. Most in the pits, some in online poker. I maxed out and put over limit every card I had, lost everything I had in the bank and in cash, and made over $1k of e-check deposits that would bounce.
- In the next few days I scrambled around and managed to borrow enough money from friends to put in my checking account for the e-check deposits not to bounce. Rent and bills were left unpaid.
- In November I got staked again, by someone else, 2 partners. Also for NL100. I played that stake trough November and December. Overall it was a stressful experience for both parties involved, I was losing on NL100 and grinding it back on NL50 multiple times, and in the beginning of Jan one of the partners opted out of the stake and it was over. Overall the stake was about break even on me (up by like 50 bux). The other partner told me to contact him later in the month and that he might give me another shot.
- I was still trying to play poker without changing anything in my life.
- Parallel to playing poker, in November I started working on another one of my small-businesses. I needed a car and some equipment for the start-up and once again I went to my mom for help. She helped me and bough a cheap mini-van and some equipment for me to work on the business. I put the money she spent into the ever-growing list of my debts, of course. I abandoned the business at the end of November, making about $600 from it.
- Having that car made winter bearable for me (it was the coldest winter in a while in Canada). My mom also helped me with rent and the initial car insurance payments.
- In December I was so burnt out that I played very little poker, while still staked by the two partners, and just gave up on life, walked into a pizza store and asked for a delivery job. I did delivery throughout December making about $1000 from it. I quit this job at the end of the month.
- As January started, and my staking deal was over, I decided to try and convert my $60k FPP's into some roll for NL50 and just grind on my own again. I was playing 235 FPP sat's and as soon as I won $T22 I would play HU SnG's and try to convert that into $25, then sit with half buy-in at NL50 HU ZOOM and hope for a heater. This took about 5-7 hours, 5 unsuccessful NL50 attempts and 9k FPP's, but eventually I prevailed and ran some roll up on NL50 (I was playing HU only now).
- In the next 3 days I ran that initial roll up to $1500 and went on NL100, ran that up to almost $3000 and went on NL200, had after a few back-and-forth swingy sessions stopped at a point of $3400 profit (I was even a bit below EV).
- I cashed out $2400 leaving $1000 for grinding. Withh all the money saved up with parent's help and with this cash-out I have paid some of my overdue bills once again (only about 50% of them).
- On Jan 23 I made a repeat of my Oct 29 adventure. Get intoxicated, go to casino, spew money in the pits, max-out-over-limit all cards, go back home and make over $1k of e-check deposits that will bounce. I have for the first time gave a serious thought about suicide this night. Never been the type. Made steps towards making it happen. Not gonna elaborate further on it. I'm here.
- On Jan 24 I contacted the partner for the stake before asking him if he's willing to proceed with another shot he was considering giving me. After 2 days of negotiations we agreed on a new deal. For NL100. He was only willing to give me a one, last shot, and only on terms that were benefiting him a lot more then before, which was understandable. I took it.
- Before my first session that day I quit drinking. That was the moment where I went from 6-pack a day to nothing. It had to be done. There really was no alternative at this point, degen or no degen, I don't remember going full ****** while sober. Bad session sober will be -10 buy-ins, where 3 will be spew. The same session drunk will be -25, 18 spew. A trip to a casino sober will be -$500 where my initial stoploss would be $200. The same trip drunk with the same stop loss would yield a result of -$NetWorth&AvailableCredit.
- I stuck to it, its been 2 month now. Things have turned around. The effect is tremendous. Not only have I not wagered a single dollar on any pit game since then, any time I went to a casino to play some live poker, I ACTUALLY stuck to my stoploss.
- The stake itself has now been going for 2 month, and the results are great! In fact, at some point I was even able to negotiate the terms of it back slightly in my favour, is how well I was doing.
* Here is my graph for the stake so far, all from NL100 HU, mostly ZOOM:
- I have also been playing a bit of live poker, and a bunch of small $5-$10 MTT's, and am up about $1000 from it over this time period.
- So now I have improved my situation somewhat once again, by $6-7k in fact since that dreadful day of Jan 23.
- And all I have to do now is NOT TO **** IT UP!
- End of Aug 2013 was the time when **** really hit the fan. By this time I had no assets that I could sell any more, I didn't even have a car. I was overdue on minimum payments on all the bills for a few month now (every morning I was paranoid to turn on the PC, expecting my internet provider to cut me off at any point). I was getting a dozen calls from collection agencies daily. The first of the month was 1 week away to pay rent and more minimum payments to accumulate. All the sources where I could borrow more money were now maxed out.
- In addition to that I had 2 weeks ago bit off a chunk of my tooth, and now the root canal was exposed, causing me quite a bit of pain. I needed almost $1500 to fix it.
- I scrambled everything I had at home, which was a collection of old Canadian bills (currency) I had in my drawer for years (not exactly rare collectables, but probably worth a bit more then face value). A little over $300. I exchanged it by face value and deposited it on Stars. I decided to play NL50 6-max. Having or not having that $300 at this point would have no difference whatsoever on my situation, but I could run it up and fix my situation if I try to concentrate as much as I can and run well at the start while I'm under rolled.
- That actually worked out, I got a break and ran above EV, 40 buy-ins above in fact, maybe the hottest EV run I ever had. I still wasn't playing well and didn't change anything in my life. I was beating the game for a very modest EV winrate. I made $3500 by the end of August ($2k above EV). At the beginning of September I cashed $2500 and paid rent, and a very small chunk of overdue bills. I left $1k on Stars to keep up the NL50 grind.
- I also borrowed some money from parents, $1400, for my root canal, and I fixed it. It was a huge relief.
- I kept playing NL50 in September, but was now running a lot below EV, about 35 buy-ins. By mid-month I was up almost $2000 in EV but less then $500 in actual money. I needed to win faster then that.
* Here is my graph for that grind:
Spoiler:
- Then I decided to get staked. The results from NL50 were decent enough for me to get a deal, and I have created this stake-seeking topic in Marketplace:
Looking for 6-max SSNL staking
- I got a number of offers and eventually made a contract with someone for NL100.
- Though September and October I played a bunch of NL100, NL50 and NL200 under this stake. I made a profit on NL50, about broke even on NL100 and lost money on NL200. I was still not playing my best overall and running somewhat bad, especially in a few small shots on NL200. We eventually ended the deal.
- He later gave me another shot for NL100, where I lost money. He ended up being down on me overall.
- By this time, trough some cash-outs from Aug-Sept, and rakeback made since Aug, I have improved my money situation by about $4k.
- On October 29th I got drunk to a point where I lost all ability for rational though, and spewed away $5100. Most in the pits, some in online poker. I maxed out and put over limit every card I had, lost everything I had in the bank and in cash, and made over $1k of e-check deposits that would bounce.
- In the next few days I scrambled around and managed to borrow enough money from friends to put in my checking account for the e-check deposits not to bounce. Rent and bills were left unpaid.
- In November I got staked again, by someone else, 2 partners. Also for NL100. I played that stake trough November and December. Overall it was a stressful experience for both parties involved, I was losing on NL100 and grinding it back on NL50 multiple times, and in the beginning of Jan one of the partners opted out of the stake and it was over. Overall the stake was about break even on me (up by like 50 bux). The other partner told me to contact him later in the month and that he might give me another shot.
- I was still trying to play poker without changing anything in my life.
- Parallel to playing poker, in November I started working on another one of my small-businesses. I needed a car and some equipment for the start-up and once again I went to my mom for help. She helped me and bough a cheap mini-van and some equipment for me to work on the business. I put the money she spent into the ever-growing list of my debts, of course. I abandoned the business at the end of November, making about $600 from it.
- Having that car made winter bearable for me (it was the coldest winter in a while in Canada). My mom also helped me with rent and the initial car insurance payments.
- In December I was so burnt out that I played very little poker, while still staked by the two partners, and just gave up on life, walked into a pizza store and asked for a delivery job. I did delivery throughout December making about $1000 from it. I quit this job at the end of the month.
- As January started, and my staking deal was over, I decided to try and convert my $60k FPP's into some roll for NL50 and just grind on my own again. I was playing 235 FPP sat's and as soon as I won $T22 I would play HU SnG's and try to convert that into $25, then sit with half buy-in at NL50 HU ZOOM and hope for a heater. This took about 5-7 hours, 5 unsuccessful NL50 attempts and 9k FPP's, but eventually I prevailed and ran some roll up on NL50 (I was playing HU only now).
- In the next 3 days I ran that initial roll up to $1500 and went on NL100, ran that up to almost $3000 and went on NL200, had after a few back-and-forth swingy sessions stopped at a point of $3400 profit (I was even a bit below EV).
- I cashed out $2400 leaving $1000 for grinding. Withh all the money saved up with parent's help and with this cash-out I have paid some of my overdue bills once again (only about 50% of them).
- On Jan 23 I made a repeat of my Oct 29 adventure. Get intoxicated, go to casino, spew money in the pits, max-out-over-limit all cards, go back home and make over $1k of e-check deposits that will bounce. I have for the first time gave a serious thought about suicide this night. Never been the type. Made steps towards making it happen. Not gonna elaborate further on it. I'm here.
- On Jan 24 I contacted the partner for the stake before asking him if he's willing to proceed with another shot he was considering giving me. After 2 days of negotiations we agreed on a new deal. For NL100. He was only willing to give me a one, last shot, and only on terms that were benefiting him a lot more then before, which was understandable. I took it.
- Before my first session that day I quit drinking. That was the moment where I went from 6-pack a day to nothing. It had to be done. There really was no alternative at this point, degen or no degen, I don't remember going full ****** while sober. Bad session sober will be -10 buy-ins, where 3 will be spew. The same session drunk will be -25, 18 spew. A trip to a casino sober will be -$500 where my initial stoploss would be $200. The same trip drunk with the same stop loss would yield a result of -$NetWorth&AvailableCredit.
- I stuck to it, its been 2 month now. Things have turned around. The effect is tremendous. Not only have I not wagered a single dollar on any pit game since then, any time I went to a casino to play some live poker, I ACTUALLY stuck to my stoploss.
- The stake itself has now been going for 2 month, and the results are great! In fact, at some point I was even able to negotiate the terms of it back slightly in my favour, is how well I was doing.
* Here is my graph for the stake so far, all from NL100 HU, mostly ZOOM:
Spoiler:
- I have also been playing a bit of live poker, and a bunch of small $5-$10 MTT's, and am up about $1000 from it over this time period.
- So now I have improved my situation somewhat once again, by $6-7k in fact since that dreadful day of Jan 23.
- And all I have to do now is NOT TO **** IT UP!
Quote:
Things that happened very recently:
- A friend of mine is moving in with me in April
- I have been moved up to NL200 (as of today, another person has been introduced into the staking deal)
- A friend of mine is moving in with me in April
- I have been moved up to NL200 (as of today, another person has been introduced into the staking deal)
Quote:
Things I want to achieve or aim for:
1) Get out of debt and build some bankroll that will float me trough a couple of years of education, business start-up experimentation and normal social life
2) Resume work on one of my 4 business start-ups, the one I though to have the best potential. Or probably not so much "resume work" as "start from scratch", which is ok.
3) Get an education, aim to assume an actual contributing role in society (as in, get a job that benefits the society), even though I wouldn't like it to be to be my primary source of income. Living in a country as great and beautiful as Canada I feel guilty not to do it.
1) Get out of debt and build some bankroll that will float me trough a couple of years of education, business start-up experimentation and normal social life
2) Resume work on one of my 4 business start-ups, the one I though to have the best potential. Or probably not so much "resume work" as "start from scratch", which is ok.
3) Get an education, aim to assume an actual contributing role in society (as in, get a job that benefits the society), even though I wouldn't like it to be to be my primary source of income. Living in a country as great and beautiful as Canada I feel guilty not to do it.
Last edited by BadMoFu; 03-18-2014 at 05:30 PM.
03-18-2014
, 05:46 PM
Quote:
good luck!
Quote:
you spend $300 a month on car insurance!?!?!?!
Quote:
GL
what do u play?
what do u play?
I play a bunch of $5.50, $10.20, $10.50 and $22 HU MTT's and some $5.10 and $25 Hyper's MTT's on a side for my own action while I grind.
I'm planning to start selling action for the bigger MTT's, the $215 Weekly HU, the $101 and $102 daily HU, the $82 Hyper's and the Sunday donkaments of course.
Quote:
gl!
Quote:
**** I use to pay 600- month in Florida for insurance . 22 year old male no wrecks h3 hummer they raped me
Quote:
Not to turn this into a personal finance lesson but dude what the hell are you thinking? How you decided to get a 2nd credit card is crazy. The fact that you got a 3rd and now have a $15k balance on it is mind boggling.
Second, unless you are living in NYC, you shouldn't be paying $1300 in rent and $400 in freaking gas. That is ******ed. To afford $1300 rent you should be making at least $52,000 pre-tax and ideally a lot more.
And $300 car insurance? Do you have 27 DUI's? That also doesn't make any sense. Nobody pays $3600 a year in car insurance.
I guess I am pulling for you but I think you should work on your debits and credits before taking a shot because they go hand in hand and your finances don't speak favorably on your ability to maintain a proper BR.
Second, unless you are living in NYC, you shouldn't be paying $1300 in rent and $400 in freaking gas. That is ******ed. To afford $1300 rent you should be making at least $52,000 pre-tax and ideally a lot more.
And $300 car insurance? Do you have 27 DUI's? That also doesn't make any sense. Nobody pays $3600 a year in car insurance.
I guess I am pulling for you but I think you should work on your debits and credits before taking a shot because they go hand in hand and your finances don't speak favorably on your ability to maintain a proper BR.
When I initially rented my apartment I owed a condo, fully paid off. It was nice and new, but very small. I couldn't fit my **** in there. So I rented it out for $1300/month to a nice old lady and moved into this apartment, that has 2 bedrooms, and is HUGE (almost 3x more space then the condo). I use 1 bedroom as my office.
Spoiler:
When I moved in initially I paid ~$1200 for rent, less then I was getting from the condo!
Of course, now I don't have the condo...
$400 for gas is not that understand. Price of gas in Toronto is currently at $1.35/liter. Car is 3.8 V6. That being said, I can try to improve this number by taking less unnecessary drives. I could try to do $250-$300 per month if I try.
I'm goin to try to be staked for as much of the poker action as I can while I'm still in deep debt. That is indeed a smart thing to do.
Quote:
subbed!! I've personally taken the quit smoking route as well.. Up to day 3, hasn't been easy :/
Keep it up man!!!
Last edited by BadMoFu; 03-18-2014 at 05:58 PM.
03-18-2014
, 06:13 PM
03-18-2014
, 06:22 PM
OP, sorry if I came across like an ass. Good luck man I hope you reach your goal! I just started taking poker seriously myself. We're all in this together
Wow interesting to hear some of the cost of living expenses. I'm paying $650 rent and $150 car insurance a month just outside of a big city.
PS: Sorry I thought you meant $400 in gas utilities not gasoline for your car lol. Paying for gasoline sucks. I moved 5 minutes from work for a cheap rent and no commute. Saves me a ton.
Wow interesting to hear some of the cost of living expenses. I'm paying $650 rent and $150 car insurance a month just outside of a big city.
PS: Sorry I thought you meant $400 in gas utilities not gasoline for your car lol. Paying for gasoline sucks. I moved 5 minutes from work for a cheap rent and no commute. Saves me a ton.
03-18-2014
, 06:32 PM
03-18-2014
, 06:42 PM
just read the whole posts, sick read and sick life story!!
GL again
GL again
03-18-2014
, 07:03 PM
