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Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Winrates, bankrolls, and finances
View Poll Results: What is your Win Rate in terms of BB per Housr
Less than 0 (losing)
5 6.41%
0-2.5
0 0%
2.5-5
6 7.69%
5-7.5
8 10.26%
7.5-10
15 19.23%
10+
26 33.33%
Not enough sample size/I don't know
18 23.08%

06-16-2018 , 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meale
Trying to prove something to a friend... Calling ALL LLSNL PROS OR WINNERS

Full ring 9-10 handed game 1/2 or 2/5,

Do we open KQo/AJo/67s from first position?
Pro - not even close.

Winner - about 9 bb/hr

Negatory on opening the three cited hands from first position.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-16-2018 , 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meale
Trying to prove something to a friend... Calling ALL LLSNL PROS OR WINNERS

Full ring 9-10 handed game 1/2 or 2/5,

Do we open KQo/AJo/67s from first position?
Depends on the game. I probably open these types of hands 12-15% from UTG.

I would almost rather do it with 67s TBH.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-16-2018 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
Let me ask all of you this....in regards to this discussion, do you consider this math based or feel/read based?

Cutoff opens to $20. Button calls. I call with Jh9h BB.
Flop ($60) Th8c4s. I check. Cutoff bets $35. Button folds.

Now Ive played with this guy before. Hes an older guy who plays more like people used to back in the day which includes betting full pot when they have a real hand. He would likely bet $50-$60 with an overpair or AQ. I think he has AK because his raising range is pretty tight.

I check raise to $110 based on my read and my bet sizing tell. I could just check/call given the odds he gave me (the math part), but I prefer to be aggressive when I think I can take it away from him in this spot.

We can calculate the odds I gave him to call and continue if my read is correct that he has overcards. He may or may not call with overcards thinking Im making a move and that he can take it away on the turn even if he doesnt hit.

So is this hand being played based on math or based on reads/feel?

A bet sizing tell you have on one player doesn't prove your point.

Better players won't give away as much information with their sizing. It makes them tougher to play against and math comes into the equation a lot more often.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-16-2018 , 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
I havent played that high so Im not going to argue this point, but it sure doesnt sound right to me. From what Ive seen of those games and from what has been described to me, there's a hell of a lot more meta game type raising and reraising reg vs reg type hands where math has little to do with it and people are soul reading each other.

Maybe Im totally off base.
It's not even close.

There are some feel players playing the higher stakes, but they are usually rake losers in those games. Obviously, by virtue of not being too awful and having big rolls from doing well at lower stakes, they will usually stay in those stakes almost indefinitely (like they just break even, lose when games tough, win when a fish is in) so it might seem like there are feel players in higher games, but the higher you go, the less that is sustainable due to swings and higher expenses and of course, bigger and bigger loss rate.

During slow times, the biggest games can often be running around those feel players who beat smaller games.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-16-2018 , 05:25 PM
KQo/AJo are absolutely atrocious hands when you get flatted IP by multiple villains. Especially if people are aware that you raised UTG and adjust accordingly. I would even open 65s or even 54s before even thinking about those garbage offsuit hands. At least SCs have plenty of flops where a cbet is justified because of draws or backdoor draws where when you have AJo and the flop comes Q74r you're just like "well dry queen high flop cbet to rep the queen".

Having SCs sometimes in your UTG open range can up your win rate from that position considerably in certain line ups. How's that for being on topic Garick?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-16-2018 , 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRiverRat
KQo/AJo are absolutely atrocious hands when you get flatted IP by multiple villains. Especially if people are aware that you raised UTG and adjust accordingly. I would even open 65s or even 54s before even thinking about those garbage offsuit hands. At least SCs have plenty of flops where a cbet is justified because of draws or backdoor draws where when you have AJo and the flop comes Q74r you're just like "well dry queen high flop cbet to rep the queen".

Having SCs sometimes in your UTG open range can up your win rate from that position considerably in certain line ups. How's that for being on topic Garick?
Lol FK THE POLICE

But ye much appreciated , my thoughts exactly.

Spoiler:
sorry garick papi we'll stop now
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-16-2018 , 07:56 PM
Seriously, next non bankroll winrate or finances post ITT is eating a temp ban, and possibly a thread exile.

Only reason I haven't done it yet is giving the benefit of the doubt that some folks are replying before the read my warning above.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-16-2018 , 08:52 PM
Fish on a heater... This is the first year I have religiously kept track of every single session and I know (1) I'm running super hot and (2) I don't play enough hours to get a meaningful sample but was wondering...

I've seen on here where folks discuss their longest breakeven period but I'm curious the other side of the spectrum. I'm nearing 100 hours for the year and am curious for those that have a lot of hours, what is your hottest 100 hour stretch in terms of bbs/hour?

Edit: Also if in addition to your hottest 100 hour period if you could share your total hourly, that would help me get a feel for where I might be when I'm off my heater.

Last edited by Joey913; 06-16-2018 at 09:14 PM.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-16-2018 , 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey913
Fish on a heater... This is the first year I have religiously kept track of every single session and I know (1) I'm running super hot and (2) I don't play enough hours to get a meaningful sample but was wondering...

I've seen on here where folks discuss their longest breakeven period but I'm curious the other side of the spectrum. I'm nearing 100 hours for the year and am curious for those that have a lot of hours, what is your hottest 100 hour stretch in terms of bbs/hour?
From memory my best 100 hour period was 40bb/hr (~$200/hr) at a 2/5 100bb cap game.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-16-2018 , 10:55 PM
lol my hottest 100 hours has got to be insane. I won like 60k in 3 months at 2/5, where I was playing less than half my volume at 2/5 (prob <400 hours). I'm sure if I look for the hottest 100 hour stretch it'd be something like 30k+

(my lifetime winrate it something like 10bb/hour over all games/stakes, but I think it's kind of meaningless without specifying stake; my 2/5 lifetime is 15bb/hour)
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-17-2018 , 06:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Seriously, next non bankroll winrate or finances post ITT is eating a temp ban, and possibly a thread exile.

Only reason I haven't done it yet is giving the benefit of the doubt that some folks are replying before the read my warning above.
You are being way to soft imo...multiple warnings should not be necessary.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-17-2018 , 02:23 PM
I had 45bb/hr at 5/10 over about a 230hr stretch, but stacks were usually pretty deep.

I also had 66bb/hr at 25/50 but only over about 60 hrs. Ran hot vs the fish obv.

My hottest single session was in a $200 max buy in game I ran it up to $8900 in a 14hr session.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-17-2018 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Spyutastic
I had 45bb/hr at 5/10 over about a 230hr stretch, but stacks were usually pretty deep.

I also had 66bb/hr at 25/50 but only over about 60 hrs. Ran hot vs the fish obv.

My hottest single session was in a $200 max buy in game I ran it up to $8900 in a 14hr session.
Man when am I gonna get some of this God mode run good?

So jealous.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-17-2018 , 08:32 PM
Spyutastic's post gives me the sads. I'm at $85 ph at 2/3 over my past 100 hours (not my standard game, so it's taken 6 months) and thought I was crushing.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-17-2018 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by feel wrath
Spyutastic's post gives me the sads. I'm at $85 ph at 2/3 over my past 100 hours (not my standard game, so it's taken 6 months) and thought I was crushing.
You are crushing. I was just lucky to be in deep stacked games with fish williing to stack off with TP for 500bbs.

100bb poker at 2/3 has a much lower ceiling no matter how hot you run.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-17-2018 , 09:44 PM
My best 100 hour streak at 2/5 is $134/hr. I'm definitely more of a consistent guy with less big wins and big losses though.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-18-2018 , 01:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeStarr
My best 100 hour streak at 2/5 is $134/hr. I'm definitely more of a consistent guy with less big wins and big losses though.
Probably the best type of graph. The ruler graph is the dream.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-18-2018 , 02:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRiverRat
Probably the best type of graph. The ruler graph is the dream.
Eh who cares as long as the best fit line is nice and steep?
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-18-2018 , 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud
Eh who cares as long as the best fit line is nice and steep?
In all seriousness, most poker players would probably be more than happy sacrificing some EV for a less jagged graph.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-18-2018 , 05:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRiverRat
In all seriousness, most poker players would probably be more than happy sacrificing some EV for a less jagged graph.
Truth.

well...they would in the downward parts of the graph!
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-18-2018 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRiverRat
In all seriousness, most poker players would probably be more than happy sacrificing some EV for a less jagged graph.
How much EV? Seems like somebody could make a lot of money selling poker players "variance insurance." I.e. if you win X BB/hr over a sufficiently large sample to convince me you're winning at X BB/hr, then I pay you .85X BB/hr and you pay me back X BB/hr within...IDK 18 months? You get a nice steady wage and I get 15% profits for absorbing the variance.

If only I had a few million in capital...

Personally I think wanting a ruler graph is kind of silly. First if you actually won like that every session would be the exact same. Second it's live poker. In the low stakes at least winrates are relatively high and risk of ruin relatively low. It's not like mass tabling online for 1 or 2 BB/100 where risk of ruin is serious without a huge bankroll.

Maybe I'll feel different if/when I start playing 5/T+.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-18-2018 , 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRiverRat
In all seriousness, most poker players would probably be more than happy sacrificing some EV for a less jagged graph.
Probably true.

Even though I'm winning a lot more now then I was 3 years ago, back then my graph was just a straight line. Now I have massive swings and no matter how much I'm up at the end of the week/month I feel stressed af on a day to day basis.

Hell, taking some slightly lower EV lines for the sake of reducing variance may even be +EV in the sense that I won't have to take as much time off.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-18-2018 , 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YGOchamp
Probably true.

Even though I'm winning a lot more now then I was 3 years ago, back then my graph was just a straight line. Now I have massive swings and no matter how much I'm up at the end of the week/month I feel stressed af on a day to day basis.

Hell, taking some slightly lower EV lines for the sake of reducing variance may even be +EV in the sense that I won't have to take as much time off.
Bingo! This is exactly how I feel. I rarely take a lower EV line on purpose but if I think a big decision is close to neutral EV and I cant narrow villains range enough to be sure, I just lay it down and move on where other good players may say Damn the variance and go balls to the wall.

For me the lower stress at the end of the day has value. I also think I play better in general when things are running smoothly so a slightly lower variance line from time to time which might sacrifice some EV in that hand could give me higher EV overall from helping me play better. If that makes any sense.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-18-2018 , 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shai Hulud
How much EV? Seems like somebody could make a lot of money selling poker players "variance insurance." I.e. if you win X BB/hr over a sufficiently large sample to convince me you're winning at X BB/hr, then I pay you .85X BB/hr and you pay me back X BB/hr within...IDK 18 months? You get a nice steady wage and I get 15% profits for absorbing the variance.

If only I had a few million in capital...

Personally I think wanting a ruler graph is kind of silly. First if you actually won like that every session would be the exact same. Second it's live poker. In the low stakes at least winrates are relatively high and risk of ruin relatively low. It's not like mass tabling online for 1 or 2 BB/100 where risk of ruin is serious without a huge bankroll.

Maybe I'll feel different if/when I start playing 5/T+.
That's actually a very interesting idea. I definitely love it when my wins come steady and regularly. However, when I think about it more, I think I would like poker a lot less if I was actually getting paid $X/hr every hour. It would seem like an actual job and it could even make me play worse. I think I could slip into a robotic mode since I know Im making $X/hr every hour and might be playing my B game most of the time.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote
06-18-2018 , 09:24 AM
Wow some of these 100 hour samples are crazy and definitely serve as a humble pie for me as I realize my results are very pedestrian, especially for 1/2.

As to the "variance insurance" idea, Dan Harrington discusses the idea (a bit metaphorically) that LAGs essentially are sellers of this insurance to tighter players who are in effect buying this insurance from them.
Winrates, bankrolls, and finances Quote

      
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