River Rat. You are missing the point. The point is that a solid pro who has no big leaks is only winning 6-7 bb per hour. I know exactly what it takes to win 10 bigs. And I agree 100% what he does is never going to get 10 bb per hr. But the fact is what the guy that wins 6-7bb per hour does is better than about 99% of his player pool

This +1.

You also need to take into account that a player like this never tilts away buyins. He never loses his mental shyt during a wild drinking game all nighter when the biggest whale sucks out on him over and over again for 4-5 buyins.

Those aspects contributes huge to the longterm winrate also, wich is easy to forget.

If you exclusively play in 1/2 games during weekend nights or holidays with the best conditions,deep stacks and does everything correctly (being a total crusher in every aspect of the game), yes i will say its doable to get above 10 blinds pr hour.

But it is hard to do, and like Squid said its only an insanely small percentage of the total playerpool that is capable of achieving the very best winrates over a meaningful big samplesize.

And I've argued this in this thread as well (a year or two ago?), but in many rooms this idea (i.e. that Friday/Saturday nights are way more action than any other time) is also a highly overrated myth as well.

Gime,yoursmaydifferG

I'm not really going to agree with that. Im 100% confidant that I can beat 1/2 for 15BBs+. That's without playing super deep and only on Fri/Sat nights. If I can do it others can do it. You just never see it because anyone who can do it, has already moved up. I think a top notch 2/5 or higher player who plays 1/2 in good conditions could approach 20BBs (that's if they can adjust to lower stakes and not try to play every hand cuz its only a couple bucs. Thats harder than it sounds when you play down in stakes).

Now, once you get to 2/5 or higher, its very very hard to reach or break 10BBs.

Losing streak over at 5. In your face, GG!!

Although beating most 1/2 for 10bbs is not that common, I can guarantee you “the best players in the world” can crush 1/2 for 15+bbs/hr. Esspecially In “perfect conditions” and I Lynne playing fri/sat night

Stealing the blinds on the first hand and racking up doesn't count, imo.

ETA: Serious question: why you no post some long time giraffes for all of us to lol / awe at?

GlolzG

I have problems figuring out how to post pics. Ill see if I can figure it out.

Playing abc is not leaving money on the table when you are playing a 9 or 10 handed no fold equity game. Especially with 2-3 short stacks. Every live player's dream should be to attain ABC perfection.

If this godforsaken thread is ever locked, let this be the last post

This is all of my 1/2 hours. I realize its not a huge sample but Ill never get a huge sample since I play mostly 2/5. There's no significant streaks of run good or run bad. Based on that and my extensive experience in other stakes, Im sure this is sustainable even though if a newbie posted a 650 hour sample he would get told that the sample size is too small to means anything. Feel free to say the same to me. About half of these hours are played during the weekday daytime. The breakdown is about $25/hr for weekday daytime hours and $42/hr for weekend and evening hours.

Ive posted longer term graphs in the past. This one is 2/5 games played since Nov 1, 2017 when I made some significant adjustments to my game after playing a good amount of 1/2 in the fall of 2017 and working on some things. Ive also gotten much better at double barrelling and bluffing in general which has been a major focus point for me the past 500 hours.

The steep incline around the 300 hour mark corresponds with a few things. My increased emphasis on playing more aggro post flop, more bluffing, the buyin being increased to 200BBs and some ridiculous God Mode poker.

It was a 3 1/2 hr, $550 win. Hopefully that counts. although I won $750 in 1 hand and lost $200 the rest of the time.

PS..I lied..if you look at the graph above, it was 3 hrs and 22 mins and a $549 win.

5/6 years ago, my 5/5 (700) game had two young crushers in it, who have both moved on to be two of the big winners in the nosebleed PLO that runs....one of them I believe is a truly world class player and the other is less talented at the very highest level but played 5/5 like it was a video game and was just a relentless machine. they were both beating that game in the $75 ph region. I'm sure people this talented could beat a 1/2 game for more than that if they could stay focused

It's an unlosable argument for you, just like I'm certain somebody can say 'it's impossible to average .325 at AA baseball over a 10 year period - PROVE IT, SHOW ME SOMEBODY WHO"S DONE IT!!!! when of course, the players capable of that are playing AAA and Major Leagues

unless you can find somebody talented and driven at poker who is stuck in a market where he has no chance of finding a bigger/better game, we'll never find that person

4110 hrs 1/3 $25.08/hr

biggest 1/3 downswing $2755

Worst session $1000 (I now play with 2 BI limit/has worked great)

Jesus crsseyed, don't you have access to bigger games?

what is the buy in for your 1/3?

Short answer: no. Nearest 2/5 is 2 hrs away. 1/3 buy in limit for years was 300, now (in last ~year) is 300 or 1/2 of biggest stack at table whichever is greater

This sounds like a really good game! I'm guessing it plays pretty deep and with big raises preflop going multiway?

V nice winrate

@ MikeStarr

Thanks for posting some giraffes! Very impressive, good job!

The only thing I will say regarding sample size: I can pull a 1013:35 hour stretch sample size from my 1/3 NL results that shows me at 12.79 bb/hr, but my overall rate after all 3942:20 hours is a mere 6.91 bb/hr.

Gittakesa*long*timeforthedusttoreallysettle,imoG

Whooo, might be the second biggest low stakes hours results behind Angrist in this thread, nice job!

I have fairly similar ballpark results (about ~70 hours and ~$4/hr behind you, also very similar biggest downswing / worst session).

Has your giraffe maintained a steady constant winrate over that stretch or do you find it has changed much over the years? In my case, I've found my first 2000 hours went 2x as good as my second 2000 hours, although my game conditions have changed.

Any thoughts on shortstack versus deepstack? The more I play, the more I think deepstack is pretty overrated regarding results (but I also suck at deepstack, so lol).

Ggiraffe?G

Sure, any of us could cherry pick a really good or really bad segment and make the stats say what we want them to say if we wanted to lie to ourselves. If anyone wants to laugh off my graph that's their right.

However, taken in context with my results from 3000+ hours in 2/5 games with pretty good results, I'm confidant that my 1/2 results are sustainable long term. At least in the games Ive played in. I probably will play some more 1/2 in the coming months because the 2/5 games are really drying up big time right now in my room and I hate driving a long way to the other games.

Why do you think playing deep is overrated?

Deep stack is way better if you know how to play post-flop, because most of your opponents do not adjust properly from playing 100BB to 300BB to 500BB. They still see hand strengths pretty much the same. You'd be surprised how often people basically just give away their stacks when they're deep because they don't realize, for instance, that AA is not really a GII post-flop hand 300BB deep.

Rake is also relatively nonexistent in very large pots. I know they don't rake pre where you play but they do here, which is a big deterrent towards playing an aggressive shortstacking game (especially at 1/2, but to a lesser extent at 2/5).

I guess I can see playing short if you're at a new table or venue and want some time to adjust to your opponents, or if you're feeling outmatched, but as soon as you feel comfortable you should buy in for the max and top off constantly. When you finally hit that nut straight over second nut straight or w/e, you really want to have as much money as possible. There have been a few times I lost a big hand, didn't have time to reload before next cards were dealt, make a nutted hand, and double up for like 1/3 to 1/2 what I could have if I had topped up immediately. And that feeling just sucks.

Of course limp/shoving pre-flop doesn't really work deep-stack so you would have to adjust your strategy.

Kinda similar to you:
First 2605 hrs $29.42/hr
Last 1512 hrs $16.03/hr

Yeah/game conditions have changed, I think that's part of it. For me, honestly, I tried alot of new things and in retrospect they were bad for my game and lost my mojo/really think I have it back now and I feel I can return to my best winrate from here on out.

IMHO shortstack play is the worst anyone can try. But in my experience deepstack poker @ LLSNL is WAY overrated. Where I play you almost never see any idiot getting it in 200-300BB deep without a great hand/great odds. It just doesn't happen. It's hard to say but I probably see a 400BB+ allin hand at my table (200BB/player) maybe once every 40 hours. Almost all the consistent $ made in Low limit poker is 20-130BB(total) pots.

Biggest downswing is around $40K at $10/20 and $5/10.

Slowed me down for a pretty long time but didn't prevent me from eventually playing higher.