Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash Discussion of no-limit hold’em live cash games of all stakes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-17-2013, 05:55 PM   #4976
TripleH68
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
TripleH68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Don't mess with the Big Puddin.
Posts: 6,556
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I started up a new app on April 1st. How good am I running?

$1/2NLHE 37.05 hours $55.06/hour
$1/3NLHE 14.37 hours $00.97/hour
$2/5NLHE 47.38 hours $104.34/hour
TripleH68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 05:58 PM   #4977
bubonicplay
Pooh-Bah
 
bubonicplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: LV, $$
Posts: 3,934
Under ev obv
bubonicplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2013, 06:32 PM   #4978
TripleH68
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
TripleH68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Don't mess with the Big Puddin.
Posts: 6,556
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Prior I had long term winrates of

1/2NLHE $28/hour
2/5NLHE $42/hour

My game has improved a great deal in the last year. I plan on sticking with this app/new start through the remainder of 2013 and evaluate.
TripleH68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 03:46 AM   #4979
BackBlood
adept
 
BackBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 792
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

siiiickkk graph sol!

What limits are these and where do you play.
V V nice
BackBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 04:43 AM   #4980
turtle82
adept
 
turtle82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 897
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenextguy View Post
Anyone that uses Poker Journal know why my chart doesn't start at $0?

this drives me crazy.

one way i found to "fix" it is to make a played game with a date before any of your games, with the result = 0
turtle82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 01:11 PM   #4981
thenextguy
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 98
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle82 View Post
this drives me crazy.

one way i found to "fix" it is to make a played game with a date before any of your games, with the result = 0
Thanks. So it's an actual bug and not a feature. How annoying. Your trick did work though.

Although it doesn't look like it will work for monthly reports unless I enter a "0" session each month.
thenextguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2013, 02:00 PM   #4982
King Fish
A Big Deal Around Here
 
King Fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: @2p2TrollCat
Posts: 13,157
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Just started using PokerJournal last month, so sample size is LOL small (first 100 hours.)

I play mostly 2/5, and usually 1/2 only when waiting for a 2/5 to become available. Maybe I should just stick to 1/2 cause obv 65BB/hr is sustainable...



And if u can't tell from my SD, I am a lagtard. (Curious to see what it will be once it stabilizes.) Also, hurray for round numbers.
King Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2013, 06:29 PM   #4983
WinEvryRacex
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
WinEvryRacex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 12,923
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinEvryRacex View Post
Is this where we blog about our winrates?

Just started playing this month after a 2 year break from poker (since black friday).
Played nl100/200 6max and nl100/200/400/some600 HU on FTP for a modest winrate.

Decided to give 1/2/2 a try for pretty much my first time at a casino.
Found a bunch of leaks during my first 100 hours, but have also run quite bad.

-$132 over 99.5 hours. Still optimistic; have run much worse before. (And this is like 4000 hands?)

/blogpost
#coolstorybro
Played another 100 hours. Continued to run bad for a while (including losing a huge hand SF over SF with no BBJ ). Then I decided to check out the casino 3 minutes away from the one I played and with a little better luck/games I'm now in the black.

201.75 hours
$+3,686
$18.27/hr

I think $30/hr might be achievable at this second casino (1/2/3).
WinEvryRacex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 10:39 PM   #4984
King Fish
A Big Deal Around Here
 
King Fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: @2p2TrollCat
Posts: 13,157
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Realized I didn't include chart earlier. Reminds me a bit of my old Rush poker charts. Not sure if that is a good thing. Prob need to cut down on spew a bit...

(Have more LT data, but just started with Poker Journal.)

King Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 11:34 PM   #4985
Avaritia
Confirmed 2500 hour haver
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 12,215
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinEvryRacex View Post
Played another 100 hours. Continued to run bad for a while (including losing a huge hand SF over SF with no BBJ

I think $30/hr might be achievable at this second casino (1/2/3).
I had a pretty good lol at your expense, you run awesome dude. Did it not qualify bc of the two cards play rule or was there just no bbj?

And yea, table selection is the #1 determining factor in live w/r. I will argue/debate this with anyone. I would venture a guess (myself and TAOxEagles have had conversations on this) that at least 30% of your w/r comes from good table selection. So good decision on exploring options and finding a better game.
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2013, 11:50 PM   #4986
WinEvryRacex
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
WinEvryRacex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 12,923
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
I had a pretty good lol at your expense, you run awesome dude. Did it not qualify bc of the two cards play rule or was there just no bbj?

And yea, table selection is the #1 determining factor in live w/r. I will argue/debate this with anyone. I would venture a guess (myself and TAOxEagles have had conversations on this) that at least 30% of your w/r comes from good table selection. So good decision on exploring options and finding a better game.
The casino had no bbj. I lost with A2dd vs 67dd. It was pretty gross.

Like 30% of my winnings are from one guy. I was lucky enough to bluff AI & show him in the first hand we played together and he's pretty much had a vendetta against me since. Every time I see him I transfer to his table and he never folds against me, while getting hyperaggressive any time he has TPGK+. I don't think there's an easier villain type.

It's hard to table select when most villains are randoms though; other than leaving a bad table.
WinEvryRacex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 12:06 AM   #4987
Avaritia
Confirmed 2500 hour haver
 
Avaritia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 12,215
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinEvryRacex View Post
The casino had no bbj. I lost with A2dd vs 67dd. It was pretty gross.
That is f***ing disgusting. I hate to give away where I play but that would have been a half a million dollar hand at one of my casinos. Wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by WinEvryRacex View Post

It's hard to table select when most villains are randoms though; other than leaving a bad table.
If I ever get off my lazy *** I'll post a COTM type thread on table selection. I've gotten pretty good at just knowing most of the local spewers at this point, but here are some tips (example would be like going into a new casino totally blind)

Whenever you walk in, kind of walk around the tables (assuming you have enough to choose from) Just look like you are looking for a friend or something don't be too obvious.

Here's what we want, in order of importance:

1) Straddlers. If you see a single straddle this table should go to the top of your list. Straddles are gambly type players that generally suck, and they also loosen up the whole table. Try to get the God seat (button on his straddle)

2) Sterotypes. mid 30s-40s asians and drug dealer gangster types. I may use this as selection this above all other criteria actually.

3) Deep stacks (several above max buy in). Obviously we want to be at deeper stacked tables if possible, but the reason is beyond math. It is because this is likely an active table, there have probably been some bad beats, some people are probably tilting, and others are probably on "winner's tilt"

3) Drinks. We want to be at the table with drunks. Simple enough.

4) Pot size. If I brush by a 1/2 table and an UTG opens for $20 and it goes 4 ways, I'm probably requesting this table.

There are a lot more but the straddle/stereotype stuff is top notch. Always request a table, even if you must sit at a random first. I almost never play on a table I am randomly assigned unless it turns out to be greater than anticipated while I was waiting for my requested table.
Avaritia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 12:24 AM   #4988
serio562
Pooh-Bah
 
serio562's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,534
When facing a snap decision I will sit at the table with the deepest stacks. If waiting for a seat I will take a couple of laps taking notice of several factors.
serio562 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 12:49 AM   #4989
fogodchao
veteran
 
fogodchao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: LA
Posts: 3,432
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Would definitely be interested in a cotm on table selection. Can't believe how much I overlooked its effect on wr when I started out.

Tbh, for me at least, for some reason I feel uncomfortable scoping tables out since I feel like it marks you as a thinking player. I know this doesn't matter and I just need to accept it since the juice is definitely worth the squeeze.

My new goal is going to be to become the best table selector in my casino. Shouldn't be any different, and is probably more important, than when I made my first goal in live poker to become the best pre flop player in the room.
fogodchao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 01:00 AM   #4990
King Fish
A Big Deal Around Here
 
King Fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: @2p2TrollCat
Posts: 13,157
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post

Here's what we want, in order of importance:

1) Straddlers. If you see a single straddle this table should go to the top of your list. Straddles are gambly type players that generally suck, and they also loosen up the whole table. Try to get the God seat (button on his straddle)

2) Sterotypes. mid 30s-40s asians and drug dealer gangster types. I may use this as selection this above all other criteria actually.

3) Deep stacks (several above max buy in). Obviously we want to be at deeper stacked tables if possible, but the reason is beyond math. It is because this is likely an active table, there have probably been some bad beats, some people are probably tilting, and others are probably on "winner's tilt"

3) Drinks. We want to be at the table with drunks. Simple enough.

4) Pot size. If I brush by a 1/2 table and an UTG opens for $20 and it goes 4 ways, I'm probably requesting this table.

There are a lot more but the straddle/stereotype stuff is top notch. Always request a table, even if you must sit at a random first. I almost never play on a table I am randomly assigned unless it turns out to be greater than anticipated while I was waiting for my requested table.
I think I disagree with the rationale behind each and every one if those points above. While I agree I want a laggy deep stack table with active straddlers, I think the rationale you have as to why is faulty and can lead to some bad decisions. I also disagree with your order of importance and think much of what you mentioned is dated and was more applicable 10-15 years ago.

A few counterpoints (am on a smartphone and don't want to get too in-depth):

1) Don't assume a straddle is a fish or even that a straddle at the right table is -EV. Many times there are other dynamics at play.

2) stereotyping is ok with 0 other info, but don't rely too heavily on them. They are more of a last-ditch tiebreaker if everything else is 100% equal.

3) Drunk players often slow the game down.

4) I like a table with a lot of chips on the table because I have a huge edge in DS play. And, umm, they have a lot of chips and chips are good. More chips are more good. The other assumptions you made are dangerous, IMO.

5) Large Pot size and deep tables are often cause and effect.


If I have 0 info at a card room and have the luxury of selecting any table, I'll sit at the one with all the chips.

Of course it's just my opinion. Do whatever works for you.
King Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 01:01 AM   #4991
WinEvryRacex
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
WinEvryRacex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 12,923
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
That is f***ing disgusting. I hate to give away where I play but that would have been a half a million dollar hand at one of my casinos. Wow



If I ever get off my lazy *** I'll post a COTM type thread on table selection. I've gotten pretty good at just knowing most of the local spewers at this point, but here are some tips (example would be like going into a new casino totally blind)

Whenever you walk in, kind of walk around the tables (assuming you have enough to choose from) Just look like you are looking for a friend or something don't be too obvious.

Here's what we want, in order of importance:

1) Straddlers. If you see a single straddle this table should go to the top of your list. Straddles are gambly type players that generally suck, and they also loosen up the whole table. Try to get the God seat (button on his straddle)

2) Sterotypes. mid 30s-40s asians and drug dealer gangster types. I may use this as selection this above all other criteria actually.

3) Deep stacks (several above max buy in). Obviously we want to be at deeper stacked tables if possible, but the reason is beyond math. It is because this is likely an active table, there have probably been some bad beats, some people are probably tilting, and others are probably on "winner's tilt"

3) Drinks. We want to be at the table with drunks. Simple enough.

4) Pot size. If I brush by a 1/2 table and an UTG opens for $20 and it goes 4 ways, I'm probably requesting this table.

There are a lot more but the straddle/stereotype stuff is top notch. Always request a table, even if you must sit at a random first. I almost never play on a table I am randomly assigned unless it turns out to be greater than anticipated while I was waiting for my requested table.
Ooh, great post. I didn't consider these things before. The button to the straddler is especially interesting. I think you just added 1-2 BB's to my winrate.
WinEvryRacex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 01:14 AM   #4992
WinEvryRacex
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
WinEvryRacex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Gone
Posts: 12,923
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Fish View Post
I think I disagree with the rationale behind each and every one if those points above. While I agree I want a laggy deep stack table with active straddlers, I think the rationale you have as to why is faulty and can lead to some bad decisions. I also disagree with your order of importance and think much of what you mentioned is dated and was more applicable 10-15 years ago.

A few counterpoints (am on a smartphone and don't want to get too in-depth):

1) Don't assume a straddle is a fish or even that a straddle at the right table is -EV. Many times there are other dynamics at play.

2) stereotyping is ok with 0 other info, but don't rely too heavily on them. They are more of a last-ditch tiebreaker if everything else is 100% equal.

3) Drunk players often slow the game down.

4) I like a table with a lot of chips on the table because I have a huge edge in DS play. And, umm, they have a lot of chips and chips are good. More chips are more good. The other assumptions you made are dangerous, IMO.

5) Large Pot size and deep tables are often cause and effect.


If I have 0 info at a card room and have the luxury of selecting any table, I'll sit at the one with all the chips.

Of course it's just my opinion. Do whatever works for you.
I'd be interested to know when straddling is +EV.

All I can come up with is that the button and CO would have to be passive. And then you'll have multiway pots with random hands OOP vs everyone except the blinds. The ideal situation would be an aggressive image on a passive calling station table...but is that worth doubling your blinds cost and playing junk hands OOP?
WinEvryRacex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 01:22 AM   #4993
King Fish
A Big Deal Around Here
 
King Fish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: @2p2TrollCat
Posts: 13,157
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Can loosen up a tight table or help meta game on a loose table. Straddle a few times and u can not it up and some players (like Avarita, for example) will be quick to label you as more of an action player than perhaps you really are.

I want players at the table thinking I came there to gamble and have a good time. I don't want them thinking I'm a nitty nut peddler that won't give them action. As some ppl say, you gotta give action to get action. An occasional straddle can be a relatively cheap way to give that action.

It also gives you an opportunity (since you are last to act PF) to play some more speculative hands pre if getting a good price. (Ie suited connectors, baby pairs.)

I'm not saying the straddle itself is +ev, but straddling can be +ev depending on game situations.


(And if you have a handle on table dynamics the straddle itself can be advantageous, but that is a much longer post that belongs more in theory than here. If you can't tell from my graph above, I have a high variance laggy style.)

Last edited by King Fish; 05-21-2013 at 01:28 AM.
King Fish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 04:12 AM   #4994
bubonicplay
Pooh-Bah
 
bubonicplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: LV, $$
Posts: 3,934
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I never see nits with big stacks unless they coolered someone hard.

Like KF said, a straddle is a cheap way to improve your image. You want to act like your there for a good time.
bubonicplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 04:51 AM   #4995
corlath
veteran
 
corlath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Chocobo Farm
Posts: 2,196
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Ugh, thought I had more money than I do. Either I overestimated how much I actually had a couple weeks ago, or I lost a couple hundred somewhere. Either way, not good. Not a catastrophic amount, but I'm going to be keeping MUCH tighter track of where my money is at. Sometimes after a game night I will just put it in a sort of random "temporary" place when I get home. I'm guessing this is a bad idea, and I should just have one absolute place to put my money every time.

Of course I'm keeping perfect track of the game results themselves.
corlath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 09:17 AM   #4996
fredd-bird
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
fredd-bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: KG
Posts: 19,330
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by corlath View Post
Ugh, thought I had more money than I do. Either I overestimated how much I actually had a couple weeks ago, or I lost a couple hundred somewhere. Either way, not good. Not a catastrophic amount, but I'm going to be keeping MUCH tighter track of where my money is at. Sometimes after a game night I will just put it in a sort of random "temporary" place when I get home. I'm guessing this is a bad idea, and I should just have one absolute place to put my money every time.

Of course I'm keeping perfect track of the game results themselves.
How you store your bankroll could go either way and has more to do with where you live, etc. Estimating your bankroll size, instead of actually counting is never OK though.
fredd-bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 12:35 PM   #4997
kb coolman
Pooh-Bah
 
kb coolman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: must...not...feed...trolls
Posts: 5,452
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

I'm really just getting back to regular live play. It's a part time thing for me (1-2 times/wk). I have an excellent paying full time job, and poker will only ever be a side income.

Regarding BRM, I've always felt 20-30BI was more of an online recommendation, given how much quicker the game plays and multi-tabling, etc. For a live part time player, isn't 10BI sufficient? I know personal tolerance factors in, but am I really over exposing myself if I start taking shots at 2/5 when I've built up to $5k?
kb coolman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 12:50 PM   #4998
bubonicplay
Pooh-Bah
 
bubonicplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: LV, $$
Posts: 3,934
For a rec player just whatever you can lose, these questions are getting very old.
bubonicplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 12:56 PM   #4999
11t
Bo Pelini's #1 Fan
 
11t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Spewville
Posts: 31,421
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

tbh, most online players would say you want 100+ BI
11t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2013, 01:03 PM   #5000
kb coolman
Pooh-Bah
 
kb coolman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: must...not...feed...trolls
Posts: 5,452
re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubonicplay View Post
For a rec player just whatever you can lose, these questions are getting very old.
Part time and rec are two different things. I don't rely on poker income for my nut, but that doesn't mean it's just an entertainment venue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t View Post
tbh, most online players would say you want 100+ BI
For pros and BRM ubernits, yeah. Then again, I've been out of the online world for a couple of years, so wtf do I know.
kb coolman is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive