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Old 06-08-2020, 11:18 AM   #25051
squid face
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Garick - not piling on. If some newb comes across this portion of the thread they need to be made aware that the TBC is not someone that should be listened to for advice.
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Old 06-08-2020, 11:53 AM   #25052
Garick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Like I said, I have nothing against noting the TBC context for newbs. I just don't think we need to be adding the judgement part.
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Old 06-08-2020, 02:12 PM   #25053
RoadtoPro
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face View Post
Pro tip - dont take poker advice from a homeless unemployable gamboolin degen with no vehicle that does not know how to use paragraphs


I laughed way too hard at this and feel bad now lullz

I thought that was every poker pro..
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Old 06-08-2020, 03:36 PM   #25054
AlanBostick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz View Post
Reason #169 not go to pro: corona virus
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntheNow View Post
Huh?

The ones who actually had the necessary skills to survive long term as a professional poker player are doing just fine, I can assure you of that.

If you do this thing right, it’s the ultimate job security. I remember being a young pro during the last crisis and feeling the same way when many of my peers with degrees were jobless.

The medium-low stakes, live “pros” you’re referring to, were always doomed long term.

It didn’t work for you. That’s almost uniformly a good thing, in the long run.
"Ultimate job security" Yeah, right, now that my local poker rooms have been shut down with no immediate prospect for re-opening, leaving experienced, successful live pros with no alternative but to go online to struggle with much tougher competition.

Are you out of your mind? Or just living in dreamland?
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:17 PM   #25055
RoadtoPro
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

job security is the #1 reason why people choose to play poker professionally.

get wit it man

Spoiler:
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Old 06-08-2020, 05:25 PM   #25056
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by Garick View Post
Alright, guys. Let's remember the thread rules, please. I agree that TBC is not living the life most poker players are shooting for, but that doesn't mean we need to pile on.

You can just tell folks the context without judging.
I have no background info or prior information, my response was fully based off his horrible and outright nonsense advice based on the absurd premise that only his advice matters and anyone playing 2-5+ with brm can only do so because they have a job
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Old 06-09-2020, 01:05 AM   #25057
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by AlanBostick View Post
"Ultimate job security" Yeah, right, now that my local poker rooms have been shut down with no immediate prospect for re-opening, leaving experienced, successful live pros with no alternative but to go online to struggle with much tougher competition.

Are you out of your mind? Or just living in dreamland?

Neither. I’ve been playing poker as my sole source of income since 2007. I’m not pontificating here. I’m speaking from direct experience.

I said ultimate job security, IF you’re doing this professional poker thing right. If you’d like, I can go into details about what I mean exactly. But you might not be interested in hearing all that, idk?

And I also said, the pros that had been playing medium-low stakes, live only, were inevitably headed here one way or another in the long run. Can expand, if care?

Anyway, it’s clear you do at least realize there have been alternative ways to continue your job. There will always be people willing to gamble, in good times and bad. And actually this time, there was more than normal due to extraordinary circumstances (lockdown, govt money, and way less options of other forms of entertainment).
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Old 06-09-2020, 05:02 AM   #25058
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

pretty sure for someone like me with no other alternatives to earn money (except to live off the taxpayers) **** i tried jobs in my late teens, id always lose them in under a week so i gave up, most of my followers consider me a success. most people with all my issues wouldve been out of action many years ago. i lived for over 20 years off the same $3000 starting roll and never went broke on it. at times i had it to 40+ and im still over 6k and made the $280 tonight for another weeks rent.
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:15 AM   #25059
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hi all,

I have been playing online midstakes sngs & mtts for the last 5 years, beating them at a decent ROI. Due to legislation issues in my country i need to make the transition to live poker. Fortunately, They offer cash games in my city.

Looking for advice on whether the following rake structure is somewhat reasonable:

Blind strucutre 5/5, min buyin 250, max 1000

«No Flop, No Drop»
0 to 49 CHF No Comission
50 to199 CHF 5 CHF
200 to 499 CHF 10 CHF
500 to 999 CHF 20 CHF
above 1'000 CHF 25 CHF
Running Twice 10 CHF

Notice that this is a 9max game.

Also what kind of hourly can be expected in these kind of games?

Hoping to get some advice from experienced live cash game players.

Many thanks in advance.
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Old 06-09-2020, 09:59 AM   #25060
Garick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by jadorehardcore View Post
Hi all,

I have been playing online midstakes sngs & mtts for the last 5 years, beating them at a decent ROI. Due to legislation issues in my country i need to make the transition to live poker. Fortunately, They offer cash games in my city.

Looking for advice on whether the following rake structure is somewhat reasonable:

Blind strucutre 5/5, min buyin 250, max 1000

«No Flop, No Drop»
0 to 49 CHF No Comission
50 to199 CHF 5 CHF
200 to 499 CHF 10 CHF
500 to 999 CHF 20 CHF
above 1'000 CHF 25 CHF
Running Twice 10 CHF

Notice that this is a 9max game.

Also what kind of hourly can be expected in these kind of games?

Hoping to get some advice from experienced live cash game players.

Many thanks in advance.
So the percentage goes down as the pot size goes up, but the max is 25? That max is brutal, but the percentages aren't bad at all, with free tiny pots and 10% only in the smallest raked pots, with rake down to almost 2% at the break points.

As for winrates, that depends on a ton of factors, but the general rule of thumb is that if you are winning 10bbs/hour you're crushing.
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Old 08-20-2020, 12:33 AM   #25061
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Win rate in relation to skill set

I have kind of a weird question that I am hoping some of the more experienced players may be able to help me with. I have logged just over 400 hours currently between $1/$3NL and a $3-$10SL with about 65% of the being $3-$10 and am hoping to at least double the amount of hours I put in this next year. I had about 1000 hours logged on my old phone but lost all of my logs with my phone. I was at around 10BB on there as well but the majority of those logs were $3-$10SL.

So, here is my question. I currently have a win rate of just over 10BB per hour but I am primarily only able to play on Friday and Saturday due to work. I am thinking my win rate is skewed for this reason. I figure the weekday games will most likely have players that are a bit more solid than the Friday Saturday crowd. Could this be something that has significantly impacted my win rate, therfor possibly inaccurately depicting my skill set, or lack thereof. I am feeling fairly good about a 10BB/hr over about 1400 hours total but am just considering the accuracy of those numbers in relation to actual skill. Any insight anybody may be able to provide is very much appreciated.


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Old 08-20-2020, 02:44 AM   #25062
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Re: Win rate in relation to skill set

Winrate by itself is not a reflection of skill. If you are the 9th best full-ring NLHE player in the world, but only ever play with the 8 other players that are better than you, you'll have a very poor win-rate but still be world class in terms of skill.

I'm extremely skeptical that you're winning $30/hour at a limit game where $10 is the max bet, but limit has lower variance than NL in terms of big blinds so if you measure that win-rate over 1400 hands then I think it should be decently accurate. Unfortunately it seems like you are keeping track of limit and NL together, which kind of messes up the data because they're drastically different games.

1400 hands is a decent sample but you could still easily be running hot with a significantly lower true win-rate.
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Old 08-20-2020, 06:16 AM   #25063
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Re: Win rate in relation to skill set

+1 to browni's comments. Weekend win rates are higher that weekday rates. Less casual players.
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Old 08-20-2020, 07:28 AM   #25064
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Re: Win rate in relation to skill set

Both instances of 1400 hands are meant to say 1400 hours, oops.
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Old 08-20-2020, 11:35 AM   #25065
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

In my experience, the difference between weekdays and weekends is pretty overrated. My guess is that in most casino environments that it is pretty much the same crowd (especially in localized non-vacation destination environments, although even in destination environments you could argue you're just sitting with out-of-town regs). There may have been a time when you'd get some randos out at the casino on a Friday/Saturday night who randomly decided to try to sit in a poker game, but my belief is those days are long gone.

I'm pretty sure I've posted my day-by-day breakdown of my stats, and there didn't seem to be much rhyme or reason for any diffs. IIRC, the biggest takeaway is the days I logged the most hours at more closely reflected my overall winrate (not a surprise, i.e. the bigger your sample size the more accurate your results likely will be).

GbutyourexperiencemaydifferG
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Old 08-20-2020, 01:39 PM   #25066
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Hey is there anyone here I can PM my spreadsheet? I have tracked my hours played, win/losses per session and the amount I've received from high hand promotions.
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Old 08-20-2020, 02:42 PM   #25067
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Re: Win rate in relation to skill set

Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141 View Post
Winrate by itself is not a reflection of skill. If you are the 9th best full-ring NLHE player in the world, but only ever play with the 8 other players that are better than you, you'll have a very poor win-rate but still be world class in terms of skill.

I'm extremely skeptical that you're winning $30/hour at a limit game where $10 is the max bet, but limit has lower variance than NL in terms of big blinds so if you measure that win-rate over 1400 hands then I think it should be decently accurate. Unfortunately it seems like you are keeping track of limit and NL together, which kind of messes up the data because they're drastically different games.

1400 hands is a decent sample but you could still easily be running hot with a significantly lower true win-rate.
I guess I should have clarified. The $3-$10 is a full kill that allows overs, usually $25 or $50. I typically do not do overs but will from time to time if it seems beneficial. I use Poker Analytics for tracking but can not seem to figure out how to view results by game. There has to be a way to separate results for limit and NL but I have not figured it out yet.

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Old 08-21-2020, 11:06 AM   #25068
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

The best time to show up is when the whales do. That depends on the whale - is he skipping out of work midday to get some poker when the wife won't notice?
Do they work till 8 pm and then want to unwind on the weekend till 3am?
Is Tuesday night poker night?
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Old 08-21-2020, 03:20 PM   #25069
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Nice save mod’s. I almost posted something stupid.
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Old 08-22-2020, 03:06 PM   #25070
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by ChainedOJ View Post
Hey is there anyone here I can PM my spreadsheet? I have tracked my hours played, win/losses per session and the amount I've received from high hand promotions.
I'd appreciate if someone looked at my spreadsheet and told me what they think. Whether they think my hourly rate is sustainable, or should I expect it to dip longer-term. Any advice from an experienced player would be appreciated. I just don't want to post it in the thread because of how public this is.
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Old 08-22-2020, 03:26 PM   #25071
Garick
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

No one is likely to want to dig into your spreadsheet. If you just give us the bottom line, folks would likely be willing to give feedback.
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Old 08-22-2020, 08:39 PM   #25072
rickroll
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

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Originally Posted by ChainedOJ View Post
I'd appreciate if someone looked at my spreadsheet and told me what they think. Whether they think my hourly rate is sustainable, or should I expect it to dip longer-term. Any advice from an experienced player would be appreciated. I just don't want to post it in the thread because of how public this is.
just don't post your social security number and I'm pretty sure your true identity will remain a secret "ChainedOJ" if that even is your real name

but bottom line is you're going to get the standard "lolsample size" and "never rule out the possibility you're actually a losing player who's just ran really good"

some cliffs:

Depends on the stakes but >10bb/hour you're probably doing really well and either super talented or due for a correction

>15bb/hour 100% due for a correction and it's going to be painful because winning seems so easy right now

<3bb/hour unless you have serious evidence that you've run very poorly then you're not winning enough to survive an eventual bad run and will go busto
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Old 08-22-2020, 09:05 PM   #25073
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Variance calc: https://www.primedope.com/poker-variance-calculator/
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Old 08-23-2020, 07:04 AM   #25074
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re: Winrates, bankrolls, and finances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703 View Post
The best time to show up is when the whales do. That depends on the whale - is he skipping out of work midday to get some poker when the wife won't notice?
Do they work till 8 pm and then want to unwind on the weekend till 3am?
Is Tuesday night poker night?
Exactly this. This is the mindset to have when you go at it. It sounds easy, but i see so many having bad mindset when it comes to when puttig in volume, when and where to play and so forth.

In the private games i regurarly attend, the whales often comes out between 22PM and midnight- and when they show up i play as long as they do, simple as that.
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Old 09-05-2020, 11:20 PM   #25075
jamesmccabe000
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Rate My 2019 Live NL Hold'Em Cash Game Performance

Hey people. I'll make this short. Rate my 2019 Live $1/2-$1/3 NL Hold'Em cash game performance.. 95% of my play was at the same casino, which is actually a pretty brutal poker room. Many proven professionals with massive bankrolls compared to mine. $1/2, $500 Max, and I would buy-in for roughly $150-300 in that game because my bankroll was so low starting. I was injured in my back with no healthcare and that's how I lost most of my savings over the course of two years while I rehabilitated myself. So, you'd have to think that my hourly rate would be much higher if I were to actually buy-in for the max. Let me hear your thoughts on my performance:

Profit: $12,449
Hourly Rate: $17.29
Total Hours: 719 Hours, 55 Minutes
Cashed: 121/205 (59%)

I wanted to upload the pictures from my Poker Income app but I don't know how to do that on here. My chart is essentially a steady ramp from $0 all the way up to $12,449
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