Wow, $91/hr in 2/5! Why wouldn't you put in more hours?

Gotta consider that you may have to be full-time or almost full time to get benefits

Unless the 4- seats are taken up by the biggest whales in the history of poker, I'm guessing it's virtually impossible for any long term game to always have 6+ crushers sitting in it.

Gno?G

If you're not a whale, you're a crusher, ldo?

How else can you be playing 10/25?

Always agreed w this. AIEV is an awful variance metric especially for LESS taggy styles (for maniac/stations a big part of the WR comes from light calls and bluffs). So if a crappy loose player runs hot and can either call or have it way more than he mathematically should, its a crappy form of variance.

Also, if you miss super-well prices draws half a standard deviation below average or above average could make a world of diff to the W/R. And none of that is priced easily not easy to track/remember.


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How can you think that 6 people crush the same game?

What's even funnier is there is no 10/25 at Hardrock (what the poster referred to as "hollywood"). There's very, very rarely a 5/10.

Which is why I come in from time to time to tell people the truth, because so much mis-information is spread about win rates and games in general (not just Florida, all over)

There's 1-2 main 5/10s at isle. Theres the 10/25 at isle. There's 1 main 5/10 at PBKC (winter only).

That's 4 games. In the entire region. Keep in mind (alot of people sincerely forget this) that you can't walk into PBKC on a Tuesday at 11am and have the 5/10 running. Then when it finally is running God bless you if you didn't open it and have to be on the list.

Even if you put in solid volume you are looking at 30 good hours per week for your high stakes volume.

I used to know most of the regulars by name. I won't out them but less than 5 people have sincerely impressed me in South Florida. I'm not saying I'm better than most. I'm probably not in the top 50 of regulars that play live poker here. But I'm talking about the top very good players in both skill and social aspect and who put in hardcore volume (last aspect being hardest part of live poker)

If you want a true representation of what a grinders year looks like, loop over to LLApex's thread in PG&C. One of the few threads I believe to be fully honest/open about results.

I will say I'm least familiar with the 10/25 at isle. My understanding is there is one giant whale that feeds the game with possibly 1-2 other bad players, the rest of the players would likely be in my top 10 list but don't qualify for $200K due to volume. I could be way off on this one bc again have not sat the game. I don't even know if it still runs regularly. I know a player I considered to be either #1 or #2 never sat it. Which is a part of the reason I knew he was the best.

LOL I thought the same thing.

Probably a stretch to say even 4 people can crush the same game at the same time. 2 seems like a more reasonable number.

Ok, thinking about it further, that definitely sounds a little stupid on my part. I guess what I meant was when loose whales are in every hand, and the pros are basically taking turns or waiting for hands. I've only played 10-25 twice so I haven't differentiated the crusher pros from the ones playing too high or taking a shot.

It's possible there are 6 people who would crush all the 2/5s but play for modest wins on 10/25. Regardless, no matter how bad the whale and the bad players, having so many good players should lower BB per hour and make variance hurt more.

Lies. Tons of great games in FLA, many super juicy 5/10s at all the clubs! Head on down to get the snowbirds

It's not as though live games are so much harder today compared to 10 years ago like it is in the online scene...

Obviously. Can't really measure it for live though like you can in the online games.

Yup +1

But careful, people ITT think variance is interchangeable only with stdev which it's not.

Seems like a pretty awful strategy if you like money. I think your problem is spending too much on food/massages.

+1,000,000

Wait what the ****. How are you net down 50k this year and not broke?

A lot doesn't make sense.

If he can sustain 7k/month life style, why is he grinding LLSNL, let alone lots and lots of it?

I Began working in may. I am deciding whether or not to try playing professionally in 2017. If I have a good December I might do it. So far I've played 109 hours since the 9th and I've won $3800. Not great but 6bb an hr is actually really good.

I do feel broke though.

Pro rata that's 115k per annum. You be aight.

I can verify that this is 100% accurate.

PS...Based on Avaritia's knowledge of these games, we must know each other. Hmmm.....

Heh, thanks for adding some validity to my rambling.

And I'm sure we have, I'm the guy getting 150 bigs aipf with AA vs AK running it twice and losing both runs.

Don't play much in your location nowadays fwiw

Avaritia may be right about Florida. I just happen to know a lot of poker players from a lot of different areas. And I know the LA area pretty well. I am also basing my statement off my experience of being a pro since late 2007 (9 years...which makes me a dinosaur live poker vet).

Perhaps I should have been more specific about "getting the hang of it." I was just trying to give both sides of the picture. Of course, professional poker is hard. But if you work hard at poker and figure out the "soft skills" as well as the fundamental skills...you can make 200k+/year consistently.

With the same amount of hard work, dedication, common sense, smarts, etc....it is probably a lot easier to make that kind of income elsewhere too.

But yeah, professional poker is hard. I'll bold it too, so you guys don't think that I am blowing rainbows and sunshine up anyone's rear end.

This is just not true.

A pro who plays 1800 hrs would be considered a work horse. At 1800 hrs he would need to make $111/hr. At 2000 hrs, that's $100/hr.

Playing 5/10, that's 10-11BB/hr. Almost impossible. I'll go out on a limb and say its flat out impossible.
Playing 10/20, its still 5+BB/hr. Hardly anyone playing that high has a win rate that high and I doubt you can get 1800-2000hrs of 10/20 anywhere.

Who is "you"? You make it sound like anyone reading your post can do it. I doubt .1% of all players can do it. Out of those .1% of players, I doubt 1/2 of them can do it "consistently".

I should probably say that professional poker is getting harder and harder too. Maybe I will have to take back what I said about pros who "get it" making 200k+/year in 2020.

There are plenty of areas that spread 5/10 NL or big Omaha games or big mixed games or whatever. Even if your only option was 5/10 NL, you can make the game play bigger in a lot of ways. One way = straddling. Another way = be a spewtard who attracts action players and entertaining them enough to play marathon sessions with you (whereas they would normally have gone home a long time ago in normal boring live NL lineups). Another way = drinking liberally at poker table and encouraging others to drink with you. I could go on and on.

FWIW, I don't recommend the spewtardedness and alcohol. Both have a lot of downsides, but they are effective at making a normal 5/10 NL game turn into a ridiculously bigger game. And more importantly, they allow a big NLHE game to run for a lot longer (days even) than the normal 3-6 hours where everyone leaves after the biggest spot is gone.

As far as me making up stuff, I play 5/10 NL up to 50/100 NL (mostly 10/20 NL or equivalent like a mandatory straddled 5/10 NL) nowadays...and occasionally a huge PLO game whenever the lineup is so much juicier than NLHE lineup that I forget that I always get crushed in PLO.

You can make 200k a year playing live poker but almost nobody does. So who cares? Let's focus on what helps 90% of players- 1/2 1/3 and 2/5 stakes.


Has anyone in this thread ever played 1800hrs in a year? Graphs to show?

Pretty sure squid has.