Only if you intend to be chum to the sharks circling around the whale.

I'll just say that non-holiday Mondays are the nut low of days to go to a poker room. Ordinary people aren't heading for the poker room just after the weekend. It will always be reg infested.

Even if the regulars are bad, they have through natural selection found a way to lose only small amount of money at a time. If they spewed money, they would have busted out long ago. You aren't going to pick up much money from them.

I suggest going to fish when you have the weekend warriors who need to make a big move because they won't be back for a month or two.

higher stacks bigger chance to find spots...

i dont know either where the money comes from: everywhere u see standard ABC reg and NIT pros quite essy to exploit.. i dunno maybe they manage to pick up huge spot at other moment of the day

If you don't know where the money comes from in a game, then it's probably coming from you.

Even though 2/5 is overall tougher than 1/2 (having 2 whales and 6 average regs is tougher than having 8 bad regs), I find that win rates have so much more potential at 2/5 compared to 1/2. There is just so much more money floating around and the pots get so much bigger (not just bigger in absolute terms, but bigger relative to big blinds, too). But yeah it does require you to be a decent player and have a large bankroll that can withstand the huge swings.

I totally agree with this. The nitsh*t regs you see on a 1/2 table on a Monday night really frustrate me. You can definitely profit from them, but you can't profit that much... it's like slowly pulling a few dollars out of them here and there.

To beat these games for a much better winrate you need to get a lot better at stealing (and some improved hand reading wouldn't hurt either). Waiting for a big hand so you can stack them is going to be frustrating because these players tend to fold instead of pay you off when the bets get big (which makes them vulnerable to being bluffed btw). I think an ABC style does okay at best in these games if you are a lot better at it than your opponents, but it's going to be frustrating because you will feel like you should be doing a lot better.

These types of players are great opponents to bluff. They limp a lot so they have wide ranges after the flop (which means they have weak ranges after the flop), and they tend to fold to big bets which makes them vulnerable to bluffs on the turn and river.

I think you should open up your range when you have position and be very aggressive in those spots. Raise to try and get position and set up profitable barreling opportunities postflop against 1-2 opponents. If you are not comfortable with barreling after the flop, that's a skill to work on. If 3 or more people regularly call you, make the raise bigger. If they still call you, it sounds like you can get some decent value out of them after all.

You can still try to get value from these players, but also look for profitable stealing opportunities. Even some extra PF raises from late position that take down the limpers money right away can add to your winrate. If you just play tight, ABC poker and focus on value (with an occasional c-bet when your AK misses) you're only do okay in these games at best IMO.

lmfao. Youre missing something...sizable

Welcome to the MikeStarr haters club. Send me your address and I'll mail you a Fan Club T-shirt....paid for by all the money I take from other people.

Well to answer your question in general, money comes from not making mistakes your opp. is mistaking and always taking the highest EV/max exploit line when you can.

@ 1/2-2/5 there are virtually very few good regs (depends on where u are tho), if you can't battle/exploit these bad regs then you should prolly improve ur game and fish are fish their money is pretty straight-forward.

Here's a tip, don't take FPS lines vs. bad regs and try to play "unpredictable" this isn't 2005 lol (mikestarr gave bad advice no offense)

No offense taken. I will argue though that in 2005, you could just pound away with value bets with overpairs and TP and print money. in 2016, you need to be a little more creative in the age where all the regs (which is what the OP is talking about) study poker to some extent. Decent to Good regs dont call 3 streets with JT on a Txx board in 2016.

You don't need to be "creative/unpredictable" you just have to know x,y,z spots and how ranges interact. You are going to make yourself very exploitable and bad regs do have a basic idea on how to exploit/and adjust.

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Good regs will always figure out the spot, coz they are good lol.

All I can do is shake my head at the amount of stubborn people here who refuse to accept anything other than what they already know and believe to be the gospel. Opening your mind to other thought processes is the path to improvement. Not saying you aren't good already, but there's always ways to improve. Im working on my math at the table. Lots of people here should be trying to think outside the box. That's how you beat people who are as good at standard poker as you are.

its cute that you imagine to be in the public eye enough to have your very own haters club haha awww

Cmon man, you didnt even know what reciprocity is, your way of thinking is a ticking bomb

I know exactly what the word "reciprocity" means and it has nothing to do with poker. Thats why I was confused when someone posted that. Obviously you dont know either, since he actually called it "Reciprocality".

Besides, Ive said it a million times. Ive never read a poker book in my life and dont read these articles either so I had no idea what that made up word meant. The article was interesting but has no bearing on me being a good poker player. There is nothing in it that would help anyone play better.

"Before anything flows, there must be a difference. Between different elevations, water flows. Between different pressures, air flows. Between different poker players, money flows.

In the world of reciprocality, it’s not what you do that matters most, and it’s not what they do. It’s both. Reciprocality is any difference between you and your opponents that affects your bottom line. Reciprocality says that when you and your opponents would do the same thing in a given situation, no money moves, and when you do something different, it does." - Tommy Angelo

That is not the same as the 34 states that have reciprocity with mine, when it comes to recognizing my CC permit.

The two words have the exact same meaning, except, reciprocality can also mean: inversely related or proportional; opposite.

"inverse" - (of a proportion) containing terms of which an increase in one results in a decrease in another. A term is said to be in inverse proportion to another term if it increases (or decreases) as the other decreases (or increases).

Once you read the whole article, you will realize that in the world of reciprocality in poker, there is much more to it than just the way you play your AA vs. my KK [or any other 2 hands] & vice versa.

Mike, one day youll realize that the mental game and the decisions you make off the table are more crucial than how well you play. It has to do with poker being a game of tiny edges in general.

Exactly. That's why this article is pertinent to the OPs question. If everyone plays their hands the exact same way, the money only flows to the house via the rake. If you are at a table full of avg to above avg regs, you need to adjust your game slightly and play ways that they dont expect.

WARNING!: Do not let this thread digress into a "war of words" between posters, else the mods shall lock 'er up!

No reason to turn this into low life "Trump vs. Clinton" rhetoric. Even if you didn't get in the last word, please prove yourself to be better than politicians & let 'er go!

LOL.

So my poker game sucks and now my mental game sucks too? How the hell do I keep crushing? You guys are hilarious.

You should probably worry about yourself.

As the person who brought it up, sorry it was autocorrected from reciprocality to reciprocity. Regardless, the context clues of the sentence should have directed anyone to the proper place, since I definitely spelled Tommy Angelo correctly.

I find the bolded interesting because MikeStarr is actually one of the best examples of reciprocality on this forum that I've seen, so in reality, it probably has everything to do with him being a winning poker player, whether he realized it or not.


As for the OPs topic, I think some of the disconnect in the answers is because OP doesn't specify if they're asking about where money is fundamentally coming from or where it comes from in our specific games. The former is going to be relatively the same for everyone, the latter is going to be extremely player specific.


Edit: idk about everyone else, but I'm getting tired on the bashing of MikeStarr. He definitely does have valid ideas. He also brings viewpoints to threads that, whether you agree or not, allow everyone to think about hands in a manner that is ultimately different than a majority of players here. In most aspects of life being able to critically think about ideas that aren't the most obvious is usually beneficial. Hopefully people can realize that and start to respect his ideas more, regardless of if you agree or disagree

To answer the question in the title of the thread, it comes from people not folding.

That answer in its singularity gives you the keys to the kingdom. Everything else is walls of unnecessary text.

Once you start thinking about how to react to a game with no fold equity, you'll see where the money comes from.

Also, this.

Standard +1

I agree that the general principal of the article applies to me. I was just saying that there's nothing in the article that will make someone play better. There's no strategy advice to help you play certain hands better. That part you have to figure out for yourself.

Trying to understand what you mean...

Is the advice earlier ITT to try to steal some pots just wrong, then? Against a table full of nitty regs who won't pay off 3 streets with TPWK, is the adjustment just value bet thin less, check it down more, and fold more to their bets? We just view an average "reg" as just a slightly less fishy fish, whose main mistake is still calling too much?

This, this, this x1000. The only thing I disagree with is using the word "good" to describe the regs in these 1/2 games. 99% of these players are not good at poker.

Reciprocality is pretty much the heart of what made me start this thread to begin with. (Yeah I'd read the article years ago)

Essentially my OP could be restated as:
In a game full of regs who play roughly the same that we do, is it enough of a differentiation to be a little less limpy pre, a little better with our sizing for value and a little more capable of finding good bluff spots.

In the old days I feel like a winning strategy could be as basic as: play tight, value bet good hands.

I don't think that's necessarily enough these days because the fish aren't as fishy. When you can hit an A high flop with your AK and get 3 streets of 2/3 pot from A7, making money is easy. When that stops paying off you need to find other ways to make the monies.

It was after a session of roughly average hands and booking a small win that I started questioning - is my game enough different from the average reg to be profitable.