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What would you have done here? What would you have done here?

09-07-2010 , 03:52 AM
Hero is in LP and raises to $12. 4 callers. I have Ks Jc

Flop is Kd 5s 3s.

UTG checks. MP bets $30. I raise to $60. UTG shoves for $120 more.

Hero?

UTG has only been sitting 20 minutes or so and came from another table. First time he's really put any money into the pot.
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 04:24 AM
Pre is OK but are there two limpers then sb and bb or were there 4 limpers. After 4 limpers I raise bigger for more fold equity. There is a psychological difference between "just" 2 red chips or more. Also you need to have some idea that they are limping really light so you can expect to get folds or calls with worse. Limpming behind could also be totally fine depending on these and other things.

Post. Gross. Why did you (mini) raise? It doesn't have to be bad but you better have a good reason for it which i suspect you don't. You are basically looking at your hand and betting given how strong it is (in your eyes). You don't even mention MP, who is crucial in the hand. Any analysis is useless if you don't know anything about him.

Finally. Whatever else has happened it is now the most super easy snap fold without a read to the contrary which you don't have.

Going forward. You are still way too focused on your holding and the action in tis hand rather than quickly analysing the other players at the table, which affects every single hand you play (or choose not to play).
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 05:30 AM
Read on MP is that he is loose ... He called a 3-bet with a weak ace (suited) and got lucky to hit the A against KK without much money behind the KK.

I raised to make MP pay for his weaker K. I was confident I was ahead of his range. I also raised to try to give bad odds to the flush draw.

It's $110 more to me and about that in the pot.
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 05:34 AM
If you had 79 hearts, what would you do, and why?
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09-07-2010 , 05:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesuerte
If you had 79 hearts, what would you do, and why?
I'd fold. But I don't. So it's a dumb question. I get your sarcastic point, but ... it's unnecessary.

I'll wait for more responses from more people before filling in any more details.
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09-07-2010 , 05:42 AM
It is not a dumb question. If you wouldn't raise to 100 "because MP will call with any piece" then you should do this with your king for value. If you don't raise king to 100 cause it will frighten away customer then you should do that with the 79.

Obviously this is massively simplified but far from being sarcastic, I'm merely trying in vain to show how flawed your whole thought process is.
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 05:43 AM
call flop. As played, fold. Hero built up a pot to fold. Thats why the pot shouldnt have been raised.
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09-07-2010 , 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
call flop. As played, fold. Hero built up a pot to fold. Thats why the pot shouldnt have been raised.
What do you - and others - put UTG on?
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb
What do you - and others - put UTG on?
We don't know cause you haven't told us enough about him. THIS IS KEY.
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesuerte
We don't know cause you haven't told us enough about him. THIS IS KEY.
You really must play with the same five people all the time because you believe you can have a perfect read on someone within five hands. That's what I've played with this guy - 5 hands. Sorry if I don't have your reading ability and your ability to judge a player so quickly. Again, it's the first hand I've seen him put money into the pot like this. Maybe an hour later I will have had a better read. Maybe after this hand I will have had a better read. Right now, all I can go by is this - he's middle-aged. Probably 45ish. He hasn't gotten out of line in the 5 hands we've played. I've not seen him here before.
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 05:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb
What do you - and others - put UTG on?
not knowing anything about the villain, it could be 2 pair, sets, Pair+FD, slowplayed AA, just about anything. KJ doesnt do well regardless of what he has.
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 05:53 AM
You can start to make a lot of assumptions in 5 hands from the way they talk/handle chips/ play those 5 hands. Of course they are not always right but the beginning of making a profit. Readless calling is best, especially with ks.
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AintNoLimit
not knowing anything about the villain, it could be 2 pair, sets, Pair+FD, slowplayed AA, just about anything. KJ doesnt do well regardless of what he has.
Hero limped UTG and didn't reraise preflop. You really think he has AA? I can see the set. Limp 33, 55 and call a raise ... makes a lot of sense.
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quesuerte
You can start to make a lot of assumptions in 5 hands from the way they talk/handle chips/ play those 5 hands. Of course they are not always right but the beginning of making a profit. Readless calling is best, especially with ks.
then as i said, you're just better at it then i am.

the only thing i noticed was that villain counted out the 60, saw what he had behind and decided to push.
What would you have done here? Quote
09-07-2010 , 05:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibelieveinkolb
Hero limped UTG and didn't reraise preflop. You really think he has AA? I can see the set. Limp 33, 55 and call a raise ... makes a lot of sense.
no, its not "likely", but it does happen. Until we know a player better, we have to take lines that dont put us in spots where we need to know more. (or as much).

For example. If we have a tight tag image, and villain doesnt see us get out of line once, then flop K 8 4 r with KJ, we cannot pot pot pot and expect to be good if called all the way. Villain has to give us credit since he doesnt have anything to go on and will fold before the river. (any credible villain that is). So here, we have to lean towards giving credit until we see otherwise. Yes, he can limp K3 suited and call, why not? I see it.
What would you have done here? Quote
09-08-2010 , 01:53 AM
$12 pre with limpers. That's not a raise, that's a pot sweetener. Limp behind or make it $20 pre. Min raise is bad. Either call or fold I think. Easy fold to the check raise though.
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09-08-2010 , 10:57 AM
Snap call. What on earth did hero raise for if not to snap call a shove?
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