I'm not hero in this hand. This is not a "how would you play this?" post, but a specific question--see end of post.

$3/$5 NL. Hero and villain have played each other a few times but don't have any particular history. Neither has been in any big pots tonight. Villain has taken down a few pots on the flop recently without showing. The rest of the table has been very loose about calling pre-flop over the past couple of orbits, hopefully justifying the loose bring-in.

Hero ($175) UTG, A9 raises to $15
Villain ($275) UTG+1 calls
fold
UTG+3 ($700) calls
fold
fold
fold
fold
SB ($300) calls
BB folds

Flop: (4 players, $65) 2 4 9
Hero checks, all check

Turn: ($65) 5
Hero bets $50
Villain goes all-in

Question: is Villain's bet credible? What hands would make this move?

With the small preflop raise Villain could have a lot of pocket pairs...maybe even A3 or A5 if the ace is a diamond. The UTG raiser doesn't get much credit for hitting the flop or turn so the $50 bet could be viewed as an overpair or TP.

If you're sitting on trips, you probably set the hook once you feel a little nibble like the turn bet.

Board is sopping wet, so I could see him charging draws. Could be 22, 44, 99 or A3 that he was trying to check since he can peal one off since its pretty easy to get his stack in on two streets. Could be 67 of diamonds and now that he has 15 outs he's going nuts. Could be 45 that he turned a weak two pair.

man that smells like A5 d ! I am new to this stuff but thats how they roll at the MUCK!

I'm only worried about pocket fives or 4,5. I think your ahead of his range and your pot committed so get it in.

I think his range crushes hero's but with so little to call off I don't think you can find a fold button here. Hero should have folded pre, but as played should have c-bet flop.

Hero has 110 left. It's 110 to win 230. Unless villain would do this as a pure bluff (unlikely) or with two over diamonds it's a fold as hero is miles behind villains range and doesn't even get 2:1.

Given preflop action villain has a lot of sets in his range (But mainly 55 due to flop action) and sometimes A3suited.

Hero folds; villain flashes 34 for a pair + open-ender. Two pair and set type hands seemed likely here but I didn't see how villain would ever make that bet with a made straight.

Why are stacks so short? It's 3-5 right?
To shallow to fold. Pay him off plus your holding an over card out.

after i seeing your post of course im like insta call but honestly hero should've cbet 45 flop after hitting top pair after pre flop raise what else was he hoping for besides flush as played its a fold

like i said the only possible hands vs most players is a turned set or two pair. most villains don't check back a better hand than you have on this flop. Meanwhile there are a tonne of combo draws villain can have. I like the way hero played this hand if he's happy to get it in on the turn because this action was induced by the check and as I said way ahead of villains range. Villain would be surprizeed to see a9 or an overpair here and probably puts hero on whiffed ace high overcards and middling pairs thinking he has fold equity.

raising to 7.5 bb when less than 100bb deep from ep is pretty bad

it's 3-5 dude.

I'm thinking A-3dd,88+, all sets, 4-5ss(you said loose preflop), 6-3ss, tptk...obviously some more likely than others, but I think overpairs play this way and are somewhat likely, as are tp+nfd/2nfd

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Without any reads, it is impossible to put the villain on a range. An OMC at 2 pm in the afternoon on a Tuesday has a completely different range than a 22 year old internet player at 1 am Saturday morning.

Looks like the villain thought he had enough FE and outs to justify a shove. Without reads, we have no clue if that was a good decision or not. That said, it is a fishy game if A9s is worthy of opening in UTG and 43s is worthy of a call.

He is putting you on 2 overs and you are short enough to feel that he has enough outs if behind to justify the 'short' shove. V didnt want any other calls except from 'serious' holdings so he puts it in to try and take down the pot with draws as backup unless ahead already. V feels that you would be betting this Flop a high percentage of the time and feels even if you have an overpair he is drawing to a better hand with the strt outs.

Hero hit Flop and chooses to trap? Are you expecting a bet from one of the other players? This is risky especially when almost any card 2-6 & 10-K can improve the others in a multiway pot.

Since Hero is short, need to play pot with that in mind and would already be all-in if you had cbet and picked up even 1 caller ... you still have TPTK and picked up 4 outs to strt. This was the 'perfect' Flop with your holdings if you are going to choose to play them. It always seems like ppl catch up when I slow play a Flop like this short stacked ... They have little 'extra' risk when they hit the Turn card and we change gears and put a strange looking bet out there (Do we just have Ax?).

What was he thinking? 1) You are short and would cbet pretty much any Flop ... You were UTG, remember? 2) When you bet out on Turn, V has 'improved' to the point where he feels he is ahead or will rely on strt outs if not since HIS stack is too short to push anyone off their hand on River if they call Turn bet ... He now has you on Ax, not an overpair since you didnt bet Flop. 3) V wants to isolate you in the hand by shoving and live with it if you call, but wants to show polarizing strength to the other players .. set/2 pr/strt/Ax 1pr/air.

I like the play against a loose table and you, as the tightest player in the hand, are short enough for him to make this play to take it down or take you on short. GL

imho: villains line is credible. lots of hands (45, 22,44,55,99,TT/JJ?,A3,Nut A high flush draws?). hero is sitting on tptk with best chance of improving to trip 9's.

preflop and flop play makes no sense. why are you raising a9utg then checking this board?

Also, thread is terrible. Why are we guessing what villain has without any reads.

I will be following up in more detail presently, but the quick answer to your question is that this is what happens in real games. If the read is that villain could have absolutely anything, then that is what we would have to go with.

I get that question a lot. That's how stacks are in the games I play, and one has to deal with it. In this particular game buyin limits are $200-$500, and this is a hand where two players who hadn't been winning collided. I sometimes wonder about 2+2 players who seem so averse to medium- or short-stacked play. In the context of the original question, you have to take this into account when estimating villain's holding.

Size size affects strategy. There's no way you can play 34s with 60BB and make a profit. Give us 200BB effective and things change drastically.

If we didn't have any reads before this hand, we do now.

Thanks to everyone, especially Answer20, for some excellent responses. For background, I was villain here and posted this because it's very hard for me to look dispassionately at how others see my plays. Especially this one, because the raise was done so impulsively. Only afterward did I look back and think that there's no way I would have done this with the nuts.

[QUOTE=answer20;37746730
=What was he thinking? 1) You are short and would cbet pretty much any Flop ... You were UTG, remember?[/QUOTE]

I wasn't thinking that at all...I was thinking that hero had a top pair type hand but I wasn't going to let him have "my" pot after the backdoor draw came live.


Nice. You hit it out of the park there. 13 outs in point of fact.

Yeah, as someone who plays in real games quite a bit, it shouldn't. You should have something, anything.

Unfortunately, this isn't the audience that you should be getting feedback from as to what people at your table are thinking. Please read the stickies.

Locked.