I am playing in an extremely loose passive $1/$2 game at a local casino. I have been there for 7 hours and have gotten stuck two buy-ins. Once due to a cooler, and once to a bad shove. My image is VERY aggressive and not afraid to play pots.

The villain in the following hand is aggressive, has position on me and claims to be laying down monsters after every hand. He has been there an hour or two, involved in many small pots but only one really large pot in which he folded to an opponent’s turn shove.

Hero: MP and I have $640 dollars behind. I have two limpers in front of me I have K 8 and decide to over limp. Yes, I know this is a fold pre-flop BUT here we are.

Villain: In the cutoff has $400 behind and limps as well.

Blinds: Both call and we go to the flop six-handed.

Pot = $12

Flop: K 7 J

Hero: Action is checked around to me and I bet $10

Villain: Quickly raises to $45. A large bet that seems that it can never be for value due to the sizing but I am not positive how he’s thinking about the game. Perhaps he thinks. “I haz good handz, get monez in middlez!”?

Hero: Everyone folds to me and I think for a bit and decide to peel a card thinking he likely has a top pair hand or a draw and I can get him to fold on a later street.

Pot = $102

Turn: Q

Hero: This is a bad card. 9 10 and the unlikely A 10 gets there. J Q also seems like a possibility. I have resigned to check folding to this card, as I simply do not beat much at this point.

Villain: He thinks for about 15 seconds. Huffs/grunts and forcefully cuts out $75 .

Note: I am not a huge proponent of live tells. I think they are often inconsistent without a large amount of play to back them up and even then people change day-to-day and can be inconsistent. However, this screamed I AM WEAK!

Hero: I tanked for 90 seconds. He did not like this and was annoyed. I decided to stick with me read and I called.

Pot = $257

Villain: As soon as I called and before the river card had left the deck and out of turn he declared verbally that he was all-in. Apparently he didn’t need to see the river card.

River: Q

Hero: I confirmed that his declaration was binding with the dealer. It was; I was being faced with a $270 bet. I super tanked! 4-5 minutes at least. I realized that the river makes us chop very often. I also realize that his QJs are now a boat (but he wouldn’t have known this before his shove). As well all of the nut-ish hands I mentioned above are still crushing me. I don’t like being in polarized scenarios for 100+ BBs against randoms in cash games but I think this is a really difficult decision not due to the math of the hand but due to the live reads.

What do you do?

Fold Pre, fold flop, fold turn?

Yep.

I'd have folded at each point where you decided to call

Over limping this hand is okay I suppose. If they are gonna let you see a cheap flop. I mean I dunno what your description of loose is. Because to me this says a good amount of pfr and alot of betting on the flop, turn and river.

If it was more of a tight passive where things are going call, call, check, check, check. I would be much more adept to playing the hand.


Youre not really looking to invest much in this hand as a TP type of hand because of domination.

The ideal situation for a hand like this is 2pair or TP+FD. Then I could see running with the hand. But your mistake was on the flop.

I dont hate the stab... but then your raised pot with TP, next to no kicker, no draw. You have like 4 outs to improve, if that.

After that, everything else is just bad. You strayed away from your plan on the turn and now are lost.

I like the part where you mention how like every hand got there on then turn and then you call.

Agree with this. I think when you see many hands completed with this card, then you have to fold. And you mentioned earlier that you don't know how this guy is thinking so you can't be sure if his tells are reverse. I know this is 1/2, but still you don't have a strong insight on what your opponent is thinking.

Calling the flop is fine, but when your opponent bets the turn, I think it is a fold.

you do have the 8
in your hand,
which is a really bithcin' card.
I woulda had a hard time folding, too.

I like pre, depending on who the limpers are.
I like the flop bet. The call is questionable but as you said the turn card is bad so i definitely give up then. Even if he was being a spastic with Q10 he got there on the river. I guess you called and won, hence the post. This is, however, spew.

Exactly my thoughts .

Oh by the way, I remember watching some random video of Gus Hansen playing online and commenting while playing. There was a part that stuck out where he open raises K8ss in CO or HJ and then says something like " I like king eight, mainly because most people don't think it's a very sting hand. Here our king eight is suited..."

This hand was not so typical. I was the primary preflop raiser at the table. Preflop was very passive. Tons of limp calling by everyone to my right. So i generally tightened up and raised to isolate when I had more traditional raising hands.

OH NO! I just got compared to Gus Hansen. This is not good. I have become a spew monkey.

===============================================

Ok, so folding the turn is at the minimum is as far as I should have made it in this hand.

Any thoughts from you live folks on tells? I really thought his behavior was so strange and that his bets in form and amount had no meaning or purpose except to get me off then hand.

Preflop is fine. You only wanna fold the very worst hands there. On the flop, bet is fine, calling the c/r is fine since villain may read you for a steal after seeing a bunch of checks. Just fold on the turn though.

You guys are not Gus Hansen.

As for the hand, this is going to sound odd, but I think you are, at worst, chopping now that the queen hit. At best, it just killed his hand. For some reason, I'm putting villain on J7 and he just got counterfeited. He could also have something like K7 and got counterfeited as well to a chop. Just something in my gut tells me to call here.

Something in my gut tells me villain had KQ. Although I guess he would play K7,J7 the same way if he's really super terrible, when this happens to me its always TPGK that boated up because thats how I run.

I thought about this for a couple of minutes, trying to come up with an existing hand that would shove the turn dark for this large an amount, and still be worse than K8 after this river card.

Complete and utter air would be one.
The only hand that hit the board that could possibly do this would be JcTc.

Looks like a fold to me, I'm pretty sure you can't call based on his appearing not to like having been called on a previous street, under some notion that a large part of his range contains total air/JcTc/counterfiet J7

I only tend to use tells (if I even spot any) when there's not an obvious play and I have to just go with a read. I can think of a few exceptions to this, but the exceptions had to do with their betting patterns and not the kind of "tells" you're talking about.

In this hand, though, folding the flop and folding the turn are both pretty obvious to me.

As far as tells, shoving out of turn w/ a card to come seems like a weak two pair hand that hes trying to protect. This is usually never going to be air.

One bad call deserves another, and after you make that one why not go for the trifecta!

Just kidding but yeah, fold flop, fold turn.

His hand seems like KJ so I guess you could be chopping now. $270 is alot to put in for a chop but I might call here if hes the type that would play any two suited cards as theres a good his two pair just got counterfeited.

As a side though, you thought you were good on the turn, right? Then you still should be good now, no?