I defend your action in a thread and then you go and write this ****. smh

No idea why you thought this was for you. It was for Javi who seems to be completely bewildered by limping this hand.

Only just checked this thread. Preflop is weird but reasonable in the circumstances. Originally I thought this was 4 handed, which would make the flop a fold imo. 3 handed is tougher. I have no idea why you think this is AK, of all things, in a game where people are stacking off lightly, but whatever. It could be a smaller overpair. I think it's close but if you want to go with the hand CRAI before the board gets worse and stops you getting value from his less good hands.

Here's an hand I watched yesterday. Not the same but a similar idea.

UTG $20. MP calls. LP 3 bets to $115. UTG calls HU. UTG has $300 behind.

LP is a pretty good player. Hes not 3 betting an UTG raise without JJ+ or AK.

Flop ($250) Qh7d3c. UTG checks. LP shoves.

The hand is 3 bet which changes things and UTG is shorter stacked as well, but the premise is that people dont shove like this very often in 2018 with AA/KK. LP knows what hes doing and knows how to milk people with 2-3 bets (2 in this case due to stack sizes) with an overpair. When I watched the hand I was certain LP had AK.

If I was UTG I would call this with just about any hand I could be in this spot with. UTG had QQ so it was an easy call, but LP did have AKs.

In my hand, villain was a complete unknown. He probably doesnt play much and still plays like people did 10 years ago (and lots of 1/2 players still do). Hit an overpair and blast blast blast. That's far from the highest EV line.

As I said, this guy tricked me by betting as much as he did which is opposite of what I see most of the time.

No reason blast blast can’t compete EV-wise w two smaller bets on this board. He actually got stacks in ott on a primo board for KK, and got called down by the only player at the table good enough to abort the backraise pre/consider folding JJ post.

Sure, like I said, he tricked me this time. It wont happen again if I see him again.

I'm gonna guess you wouldn't play KK this way in this spot? Im pretty sure he was just trying to "win the hand now" before he got outdrawn by the flush.

I prob wouldn’t size that big no, but I have far more hands probably. It could be max EV sizing for this guy if his betting range is extremely narrow and strong and that’s why you are playing to max exploit all streets against him.

Remember why you didn’t backraise pre and force yourself to play against that same range post - I know you did that to some extent, but it seems like faulty exploitative thinking to think that his range’s pot+ sizing = “bluffs”/AK. It really just looks like what it is and his line shouldn’t “fool” you. He also just has so much QQ+ when you have JJ that it is an easier ckf post. Of course it’ll never fool you again - I just don’t think it’s close given the game flow.

If people are calling $50 raises with T9o and stacks below 100 BB’s then why would you do anything but raise this the first time around.

Maybe they’re open-calling with all kinds of hands as well or you can grab $100 uncontested often. So, there is likely value in employing a specific limping range from EP for value and visibility in extreme circumstances like this game - and a hand like JJ, blocking no aces, might make as much money/more money doing so here.
That said I still open raise bc limping sucks balls.

If I’m going to l/rr in a game like this I’m going to do it with AA/KK which plays better than JJ OOP and is less susceptible to being out paired.

There’s too much value to be had building a $150-250 pot preflop with a massive equity edge and then stacking fish on good boards.

I've never heard of limping to see where you're at. That's a new one.

This hand is completely different in every respect. It's a threebet pot, the board is dry as a bone, the bet is a shove. That last is probably most important. People overbet shove AK no pairs, sure. They don't overbet the flop in spots where there's still piles of money to go in.

Like do you understand why the guy bet like he did? Dude is basically gobbledygeek, trying to get the money in as fast as possible so he doesn't have to make any more decisions.

LOL. I agree. He played it like a 70 year old OMC that wanted to take it down before he had to make a decision. I just dont see that often from 35 year old normal looking guys in 2018.

Honestly I just think doing things like limping premiums to be a severe case of FPS except under the most extraordinary of circumstances, i.e. tilted guy just shipping blind pre every hand.